From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Wed Oct 1 19:04:27 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Tom Mason) Date: 01 Oct 2008 19:04:27 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] NO2ID Pub meeting, Wednesday night In-Reply-To: <20080930225416.GA6035@omphalos.singularity> References: <001901c92343$f7444fc0$0201a8c0@mccabe9ax6rgq8> <20080930225416.GA6035@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: Afraid I can't make it to the pub meet- my residency doesn't start for a couple of days. Keep me informed of the leafleting plans, though, as I'm definitely up for leafleting outside the venue. See you in a few days, Tom On Sep 30 2008, Jeremy Henty wrote: >On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 10:31:56PM +0100, Chris McCabe wrote: >> With luck, u might be able to display posters in Arjuna & Libra & Aries >> bkshop, Mill Road > >I can distribute posters to shops in the Mill Road area. See you at >the pub! > >Jeremy Henty > >_______________________________________________ >IDcards-Cambridge mailing list >IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org >http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge > From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Thu Oct 2 09:31:55 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Andrew Watson) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 09:31:55 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Saturday stall volunteers Message-ID: Hi, Thanks to all at the pub meeting last night who volunteered to help with the stall on Saturday: Mike Cordner Colin Rosenstiel (not confirmed) Rend Dave Korn Jeremy Henty Having looked at the weekend weather forecast, it seems there's rain coming on Saturday afternoon, but there's some chance we may get in some stall time from 10am before the rain arrives. Alex is coordinating the stall - so I'll leave it to her to arrange timings and fall-back plans in case the rain comes early. Thanks, Andrew From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Thu Oct 2 09:36:25 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Andrew Watson) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 09:36:25 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Copdock motocycle show, Sunday Message-ID: Hi, Is anyone going to the Copdock classic motorcycle show on Sunday: http://www.copdock-cmc.co.uk/ Mike Cordner will be there, and will be distributing NO2ID literature. If anyone else is going, and can lend Mike a hand, please contact him: garrymichaelcordner@yahoo.co.uk Thanks, Andrew From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Thu Oct 2 12:38:31 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Marcus Titannicus) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 11:38:31 +0000 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Saturday stall volunteers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We didn't quite get to me volunteering for stall duties as I left early=2C = but count me in too for the later shifts. =3B-) Marc > Hi=2C > > Thanks to all at the pub meeting last night who volunteered to help with > the stall on Saturday: > > Mike Cordner > Colin Rosenstiel (not confirmed) > Rend > Dave Korn > Jeremy Henty > > Having looked at the weekend weather forecast=2C it seems there's rain co= ming > on Saturday afternoon=2C but there's some chance we may get in some stall > time from 10am before the rain arrives. > > Alex is coordinating the stall - so I'll leave it to her to arrange timin= gs > and fall-back plans in case the rain comes early. > > Thanks=2C > > Andrew > > _______________________________________________ > IDcards-Cambridge mailing list > IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org > http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge _________________________________________________________________ Discover Bird's Eye View now with Multimap from Live Search http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/111354026/direct/01/= From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Fri Oct 3 16:41:53 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Hayes, Alexandra) Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 16:41:53 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Street stall, Saturday 4th October Message-ID: --_000_F322F8D64BAD61459427B12F0E6AE22E94369ECD04CBGPQMAILBX01_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, Thanks to everyone who said they'd help out with the stall tomorrow. We hav= e enough people for morning and afternoon slots, I think. The weather forec= ast isn't great, but let's say that if it's raining half-an-hour before you= 're supposed to turn up, just assume it's off, otherwise I will see you in = the usual place outside the Guildhall. If any of you need to get in touch with me on the day, my phone number is 0= 78 1191 7096. Thanks, Alex --_000_F322F8D64BAD61459427B12F0E6AE22E94369ECD04CBGPQMAILBX01_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

Thanks to everyone who said they’d help out with= the stall tomorrow. We have enough people for morning and afternoon slots, I th= ink. The weather forecast isn’t great, but let’s say that if it̵= 7;s raining half-an-hour before you’re supposed to turn up, just assume i= t’s off, otherwise I will see you in the usual place outside the Guildhall.

 

If any of you need to get in touch with me on the day,= my phone number is 078 1191 7096.

 

Thanks,


Alex

--_000_F322F8D64BAD61459427B12F0E6AE22E94369ECD04CBGPQMAILBX01_-- From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Sat Oct 4 14:35:28 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org) Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 14:35:28 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Security and Control - ID Cards vis-a-vis iPhone! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18AC5C88-BEB6-4033-B63C-F9C075D40D1F@ntlworld.com> "Security" tends to convey an impression of something that improves our safety, something that is done for us; however, "security" seems to be increasingly a euphemism for control. Lets leave aside how the notion of "security" is used in defending ID Cards and its database and have a look at its use and abuse in another arena. I found an article entitled "With iPhone, 'Security' Is Code for 'Control'" that considers this notion in an entirely different context from our campaign and yet I sense a commonality in matters being discussed. With iPhone, 'Security' Is Code for 'Control' Bruce Schneier, 02/07/2008 Excerpt: "By confusing control and security, companies are able to force control measures that work against our interests by convincing us they are doing it for our own safety." http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2008/02/securitymatters_0207 From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Sat Oct 4 18:03:00 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Colin Rosenstiel) Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 18:03 +0100 (BST) Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Saturday stall volunteers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Don't know what happened but there was no sign of a stall when I turned up shortly after 2. Colin Rosenstiel From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Sun Oct 5 12:00:03 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Jeremy Henty) Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 12:00:03 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Saturday stall volunteers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081005110003.GB10924@omphalos.singularity> On Sat, Oct 04, 2008 at 06:03:00PM +0100, Colin Rosenstiel wrote: > Don't know what happened but there was no sign of a stall when I > turned up shortly after 2. Alex and I ran the early shift 10-12pm . I left a bit before noon and left Alex waiting for the next shift to arrive. Don't know what happened next. Jeremy Henty From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Sun Oct 5 12:21:53 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Rend Shakir) Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 11:21:53 +0000 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Saturday stall volunteers In-Reply-To: <20081005110003.GB10924@omphalos.singularity> References: <20081005110003.GB10924@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: --_a5c47ea4-7c53-4b24-bb21-e6370715d80f_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Marc and I arrived at 12pm and worked until about a quarter to 2pm=2C we mu= st have shut shop just before you arrived... shame Rend > From: onepoint@starurchin.org > To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org > Subject: Re: [IDcards-Cambridge] Saturday stall volunteers > Date: Sun=2C 5 Oct 2008 12:00:03 +0100 >=20 > On Sat=2C Oct 04=2C 2008 at 06:03:00PM +0100=2C Colin Rosenstiel wrote: >=20 > > Don't know what happened but there was no sign of a stall when I > > turned up shortly after 2. >=20 > Alex and I ran the early shift 10-12pm . I left a bit before noon and > left Alex waiting for the next shift to arrive. Don't know what > happened next. >=20 > Jeremy Henty=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IDcards-Cambridge mailing list > IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org > http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge _________________________________________________________________ News=2C entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now= ! http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx= --_a5c47ea4-7c53-4b24-bb21-e6370715d80f_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Marc and I arrived at 12pm and worked until about a quarter to 2pm=2C we mu= st have shut shop just before you arrived... shame
Rend

>=3B Fr= om: onepoint@starurchin.org
>=3B To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.or= g
>=3B Subject: Re: [IDcards-Cambridge] Saturday stall volunteers
&= gt=3B Date: Sun=2C 5 Oct 2008 12:00:03 +0100
>=3B
>=3B On Sat=2C= Oct 04=2C 2008 at 06:03:00PM +0100=2C Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
>=3B >=3B >=3B Don't know what happened but there was no sign of a stal= l when I
>=3B >=3B turned up shortly after 2.
>=3B
>=3B = Alex and I ran the early shift 10-12pm . I left a bit before noon and
&= gt=3B left Alex waiting for the next shift to arrive. Don't know wha= t
>=3B happened next.
>=3B
>=3B Jeremy Henty
>=3B >=3B _______________________________________________
>=3B IDcards-C= ambridge mailing list
>=3B IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org
>= =3B http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge

Get news=2C entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Check it out!= = --_a5c47ea4-7c53-4b24-bb21-e6370715d80f_-- From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Sun Oct 5 14:27:00 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Colin Rosenstiel) Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 14:27 +0100 (BST) Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Saturday stall volunteers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Marc and I arrived at 12pm and worked until about a quarter to 2pm, > we must have shut shop just before you arrived... shame > Rend Never mind. Colin Rosenstiel From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Sun Oct 5 18:25:47 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org) Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2008 18:25:47 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] "Big Brother" State, "Big Brother Shops" - The Snooping Age In-Reply-To: <20071022134940.A5952@sphinx.mythic-beasts.com> References: <3a45bae80710220434x20d40a19w6738242cfe61a68d@mail.gmail.com> <20071022134940.A5952@sphinx.mythic-beasts.com> Message-ID: When it comes to applying "Big Brother" technology, our country seems to be thoroughly indulging itself in this Snooping Age. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think many of us already have RFID (Radio Frequency Identity) devices in our passports (what else could that wire coil in my passport be?). What are our shops up to. The following article reports on the problem. ____ BBC News - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4211591.stm Last Updated: Thursday, 27 January 2005, 23:41 GMT Big Brother at the supermarket till? By Bill Wilson BBC News business reporter Just a harmless extension of the well-known barcode, or a sinister tracking device designed to monitor the movements and habits of consumers? The arguments around radio frequency ID (RFID) tags are heating up, with news that an American civil liberties organisation wants a boycott of Tesco over its use of the tags. Tesco says it is only using RFID tags on DVDs and CDs at its Extra superstore in Leicester to help its distribution process and to "improve availability for customers". But those opposed to it insist the technology - which allows products to be tracked via radio waves - is a device to spy on customers. Trial extension? RFID tags in products, and on "smart" shelves, are able to tally the shelves' contents continually, and make more precise requests for inventory from suppliers. The chips can also indicate when a CD is stored in the wrong shelf. This could mean that retailers have fewer empty shelves, and suppliers can eliminate wasteful overproduction of their goods, say supporters of RFID. However pressure group Consumers Against Supermarket Privacy Invasion and Numbering (Caspian) is urging people to restrict their purchases at Tesco. It claims RFID chips can be used to secretly identify you and the things you're carrying or wearing. All kinds of personal belongings, including clothes, could constantly broadcast messages about their whereabouts and their owners, it warns. "We believe Tesco's decision to pursue item-level RFID tagging is irresponsible," says Caspian director Katherine Albrecht. Ms Albrecht claims Tesco's RFID move "would involve potentially hundreds of thousands more shoppers... it essentially means that more people will be taking home items containing spy chips". Analysts point out that the technology is years away from being able to function in such a sophisticated way: although it is already starting to be applied to logistics operations, consumer goods are unlikely to be tagged on any scale until 2010. And Tesco says the tiny devices, fitted to the cellophane wrappers on products, can be simply thrown away by the consumer after opening. They also say the radio-barcode on the devices can only be read when in close proximity to a checkout "reader" located in the store. "Suggestions we would use these to track people or monitor them after they have left the store are simply not true," RFID order There was controversy in 2003 when a RFID tracking system was used in the packaging of Gillette Mach3 razor blades to stop shoplifting at one of Tesco's Cambridge branches. Anyone picking up a packet of the blades triggered CCTV surveillance of themselves in the store. And those who support the new technology say it could help improve security, at a shop floor level and distribution level. Tesco has signed a deal with ADT, which will supply 4,000 RFID readers and 16,000 antennae to it by autumn, with 1,300 UK Tesco supermarkets and 35 distribution centres getting tracking equipment. The company says says the technology will be used on things like trays and palettes, and not on individual items. This is totally separate from the Leicester trial, Tesco insists. Marks & Spencer is another UK retailer experimenting. The firm has been running an RFID tag trial on men's suits at nine stores, including in Oxford Street, London. It says this is solely to "monitor improvements to stock availability in the supply chain from supplier to store". US legislation RFID was pioneered in the US at the Auto-ID Centre in Boston, a partnership of around 100 global companies, including Wal-mart, Tesco, Nestle, and Pepsi. The centre has now been superseded by EPC Global where research continues... as does protest in the US. Utah's House of Representatives has passed an RFID privacy bill, which requires all goods carrying functioning RFID tags in stores to be labelled as such. In California, state Senator Debra Bowen has introduced a bill to keep data from RFID tags separate from consumers' personal information. But, according to Tesco: "The impact to the supply chain, to our stores, our staff and most importantly to our customers will be enormous, and all for the better." From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Tue Oct 7 09:55:51 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Jeremy Henty) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 09:55:51 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Freshers' Fair Message-ID: <20081007085551.GA18381@omphalos.singularity> I just realised that the Freshers' Fair is on today and tomorrow. Are we showing up there or has the rule change frozen us out? Jeremy Henty From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Tue Oct 7 11:10:32 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Andrew Watson) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 11:10:32 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Freshers' Fair In-Reply-To: <20081007085551.GA18381@omphalos.singularity> References: <20081007085551.GA18381@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: Jeremy, You wrote: > I just realised that the Freshers' Fair is on today and tomorrow. Are > we showing up there or has the rule change frozen us out? Sorry, I should have kept everyone better informed ... Yes, the fair is today. We hope to have NO2ID literature and badges being distributed from at least one stall, but didn't manage to establish contact with CUSU beforehand to find out exactly what they were or were not prepared to accept. Some of our student supporters (who are going to be at the Fair anyway) have the materials, and will distribute them if possible. It's not ideal, but better than nothing. Meanwhile, I'll renew efforts to find students wiling to set up a "CU Student NO2ID", so that we can have our own presence at the October 2009 Fair - definitely the best solution, if we can arrange it. If anyone knows CU students who would be prepared to drive this forward, please have them get in touch with me. Thanks, Andrew From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Tue Oct 7 11:59:11 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Chris McCabe) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 11:59:11 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Freshers' Fair References: <20081007085551.GA18381@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <001701c9286b$bb2bc770$0201a8c0@mccabe9ax6rgq8> If frozen out, cd ye catch em as they come out? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Henty" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 9:55 AM Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Freshers' Fair > > I just realised that the Freshers' Fair is on today and tomorrow. Are > we showing up there or has the rule change frozen us out? > > Jeremy Henty > > _______________________________________________ > IDcards-Cambridge mailing list > IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org > http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1711 - Release Date: 10/6/2008 17:37 From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Tue Oct 7 23:02:10 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Marcus Titannicus) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 22:02:10 +0000 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Freshers' Fair In-Reply-To: <001701c9286b$bb2bc770$0201a8c0@mccabe9ax6rgq8> References: <20081007085551.GA18381@omphalos.singularity> <001701c9286b$bb2bc770$0201a8c0@mccabe9ax6rgq8> Message-ID: You could walk up and down the queue handing out flyers=2C as this is off t= he premises. Marc > If frozen out=2C cd ye catch em as they come out? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeremy Henty"=20 > To:=20 > Sent: Tuesday=2C October 07=2C 2008 9:55 AM > Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Freshers' Fair > > >> >> I just realised that the Freshers' Fair is on today and tomorrow. Are >> we showing up there or has the rule change frozen us out? >> >> Jeremy Henty >> >> _______________________________________________ >> IDcards-Cambridge mailing list >> IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org >> http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1711 - Release Date: 10/6/2008 > 17:37 > > > _______________________________________________ > IDcards-Cambridge mailing list > IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org > http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge _________________________________________________________________ Get all your favourite content with the slick new MSN Toolbar - FREE http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/111354027/direct/01/= From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Wed Oct 8 08:08:34 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Andrew Watson) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 08:08:34 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] November pub meeting, joint letter to papers Message-ID: Hi, As you know, we hold our pub meetings on the first Wednesday of the month. However, the first Wednesday in November is the 5th, when I imagine quite a lot of people will have other plans :-). I would therefore propose that we move it up a day to Tuesday 4th November. If you're definitely coming to the meeting, but can't make the 4th, let me know and we'll try for another day that week. The Home Office plans to issue the first biometric visas to some overseas students and spouses on 25th November. While these aren't identity cards issued under the Identity Cards Act, and there is as yet no National Identity Register, we can expect them to trumpet this as the first result of the ID card programme, so it would be good to be organise some sort of counter-publicity. One idea would be a multi-signatory letter to papers pointing out the deception (visas aren't ID cards) and/or criticising the Home Office for picking on these "soft targets" as guinea-pigs for its scheme. Does anyone have any thoughts on this, or other possible ways to mark 25th November? Cheers, Andrew From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Wed Oct 8 18:25:21 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Andrew Watson) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 18:25:21 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Arrangements for Sunday's film Message-ID: Hi, If you're planning to come to Sunday's showing of "Taking Liberties", and would be prepared to turn up early to help get things organised, please can you let me know? Doors open at 7:30pm, but a couple of helpers from around 7pm would be a great help. Secondly, 22 Jesus Lane can hold more chairs than they actually have. If you have any folding chairs you could lend for the evening, to hold in reserve in case we get a full house, I'd be very grateful! Thanks, Andrew From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Thu Oct 9 07:48:37 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (GARRY MICHAEL CORDNER) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 06:48:37 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Copdock motocycle show, Sunday In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <505897.70183.qm@web27905.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> --0-461732468-1223534917=:70183 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sadly, Mike Cordner was not able to make it to the Copdock after all.=C2=A0= Owing to a number of different circumstances making it impossible, it turn= ed out, according to my friends to be a wash-out, anyway, so the best laid = plans of mice and men are oft, etc...=C2=A0 Sorry. --- On Thu, 2/10/08, Andrew Watson wrote: From: Andrew Watson Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Copdock motocycle show, Sunday To: "No2ID Cambridge group" Date: Thursday, 2 October, 2008, 9:36 AM Hi, Is anyone going to the Copdock classic motorcycle show on Sunday: http://www.copdock-cmc.co.uk/ Mike Cordner will be there, and will be distributing NO2ID literature. If anyone else is going, and can lend Mike a hand, please contact him: garrymichaelcordner@yahoo.co.uk Thanks, Andrew _______________________________________________ IDcards-Cambridge mailing list IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge =0A=0A=0A --0-461732468-1223534917=:70183 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sadly, Mike Cordner was not able to make it t= o the Copdock after all.  Owing to a number of different circumstances= making it impossible, it turned out, according to my friends to be a wash-= out, anyway, so the best laid plans of mice and men are oft, etc...  S= orry.

--- On Thu, 2/10/08, Andrew Watson <andrew.watson@no2= id.net> wrote:
From: Andrew Watson &= lt;andrew.watson@no2id.net>
Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Copdock moto= cycle show, Sunday
To: "No2ID Cambridge group" <idcards-cambridge@lis= ts.beasts.org>
Date: Thursday, 2 October, 2008, 9:36 AM

H=
i,

Is anyone going to the Copdock classic motorcycle show on Sunday:=


  http://www.copdock-cmc.co.uk/

Mike Cordner will be there, =
and
 will be distributing NO2ID literature. If
anyone else is going, and can=
 lend Mike a hand, please contact him:
garrymichaelcordner@yahoo.co.uk
                               Thanks,

                       =
              Andrew

_______________________________________________=

IDcards-Cambridge mailing list
IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.orghttp://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge

=0A=0A=0A=0A --0-461732468-1223534917=:70183-- From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Thu Oct 9 13:29:11 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Jeremy Henty) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 13:29:11 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Arrangements for Sunday's film In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081009122911.GF2863@omphalos.singularity> On Wed, Oct 08, 2008 at 06:25:21PM +0100, Andrew Watson wrote: > ... a couple of helpers from around 7pm would be a great help. I can be there for 7pm. > If you have any folding chairs you could lend for the evening, ... Maybe Mark could ask to borrow some on Freecycle? Jeremy Henty From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Thu Oct 9 21:38:43 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Marcus Titannicus) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 20:38:43 +0000 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Arrangements for Sunday's film In-Reply-To: <20081009122911.GF2863@omphalos.singularity> References: <20081009122911.GF2863@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: I suggest that Freecycle is not the best place to be asking for the *loan* = of items=2C as it's mostly for people to look for and/or give away stuff=2C= but it does have an associated list which a query could be put out on=2C w= hich experience tells me there's a generous bunch of people using! Cambridgecafe@yahoogroups.com Marc > On Wed=2C Oct 08=2C 2008 at 06:25:21PM +0100=2C Andrew Watson wrote: > >> ... a couple of helpers from around 7pm would be a great help. > > I can be there for 7pm. > >> If you have any folding chairs you could lend for the evening=2C ... > > Maybe Mark could ask to borrow some on Freecycle? > > Jeremy Henty _________________________________________________________________ Win New York holidays with Kellogg=92s & Live Search http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/111354033/direct/01/= From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Sun Oct 12 02:23:53 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Rend Shakir) Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 01:23:53 +0000 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Arrangements for Sunday's film In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: --_8534a528-b2a9-43d0-80d4-d8727a88027a_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable count me in. c u 7pm....=20 Rend > To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org > From: andrew.watson@no2id.net > Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Arrangements for Sunday's film > Date: Wed=2C 8 Oct 2008 18:25:21 +0100 >=20 > Hi=2C >=20 > If you're planning to come to Sunday's showing of "Taking Liberties"=2C a= nd > would be prepared to turn up early to help get things organised=2C please= can > you let me know? Doors open at 7:30pm=2C but a couple of helpers from aro= und > 7pm would be a great help. >=20 > Secondly=2C 22 Jesus Lane can hold more chairs than they actually have. I= f > you have any folding chairs you could lend for the evening=2C to hold in > reserve in case we get a full house=2C I'd be very grateful! >=20 > Thanks=2C >=20 > Andrew >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IDcards-Cambridge mailing list > IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org > http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge _________________________________________________________________ Explore the seven wonders of the world http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=3D7+wonders+world&mkt=3Den-US&form=3DQ= BRE= --_8534a528-b2a9-43d0-80d4-d8727a88027a_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable count me in.
c u 7pm....
Rend

>=3B To: idcards-cambridge@li= sts.beasts.org
>=3B From: andrew.watson@no2id.net
>=3B Subject: [= IDcards-Cambridge] Arrangements for Sunday's film
>=3B Date: Wed=2C 8 = Oct 2008 18:25:21 +0100
>=3B
>=3B Hi=2C
>=3B
>=3B If = you're planning to come to Sunday's showing of "Taking Liberties"=2C and>=3B would be prepared to turn up early to help get things organised=2C = please can
>=3B you let me know? Doors open at 7:30pm=2C but a couple = of helpers from around
>=3B 7pm would be a great help.
>=3B
&= gt=3B Secondly=2C 22 Jesus Lane can hold more chairs than they actually hav= e. If
>=3B you have any folding chairs you could lend for the evening= =2C to hold in
>=3B reserve in case we get a full house=2C I'd be very= grateful!
>=3B
>=3B Thanks=2C>=3B
>=3B Andrew
>=3B >=3B _______________________________________________
>=3B IDcards-= Cambridge mailing list
>=3B IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org
>= =3B http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge

Explore the seven wonders of the world L= earn more! = --_8534a528-b2a9-43d0-80d4-d8727a88027a_-- From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Tue Oct 21 10:28:00 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Hayes, Alexandra) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 10:28:00 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Home Office and Union opposition Message-ID: --_000_F322F8D64BAD61459427B12F0E6AE22E94369ECD52CBGPQMAILBX01_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Home Office trying to get the unions to drop opposition to ID cards: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/oct/20/idcards --_000_F322F8D64BAD61459427B12F0E6AE22E94369ECD52CBGPQMAILBX01_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Home Office trying to get the unions to drop oppositio= n to ID cards:

 

http://www.= guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/oct/20/idcards

 

--_000_F322F8D64BAD61459427B12F0E6AE22E94369ECD52CBGPQMAILBX01_-- From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Tue Oct 21 10:46:15 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Andrew Watson) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 10:46:15 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] NO2ID Saturday stall, Saturday 25th October Message-ID: Hi, The next NO2ID Cambridge street stall will be in the usual place outside the Guildhall, from 10am on Saturday (25th October). If you can spare an hour to hand out literature and help sign up campaign supporters, please drop me a note. Depending on how many volunteers are available, and when, we could try to extend the stall past the usual noon pack-up time. If you can let me know what time(s) you might be available, I'll try to put together a roster for running the stall into the afternoon. The forecast is good. However, if it is in fact raining at 10am on Saturday, we'll repair to Clowns on King Street instead for a cup of coffee (http://www.google.co.uk/maps?q=CB1+1LN). If there's any doubt about what's happening on the day, please call me on 07710 469624. Thanks, Andrew From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Tue Oct 21 10:49:18 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Hayes, Alexandra) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 10:49:18 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] NO2ID Saturday stall, Saturday 25th October In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'll be there Andrew- can be flexible about times... -----Original Message----- From: idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org [mailto:idcards-cambridge-ad= min@lists.beasts.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Watson Sent: 21 October 2008 10:46 To: No2ID Cambridge group Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] NO2ID Saturday stall, Saturday 25th October Hi, The next NO2ID Cambridge street stall will be in the usual place outside the Guildhall, from 10am on Saturday (25th October). If you can spare an hour to hand out literature and help sign up campaign supporters, please drop me a note. Depending on how many volunteers are available, and when, we could try to extend the stall past the usual noon pack-up time. If you can let me know what time(s) you might be available, I'll try to put together a roster for running the stall into the afternoon. The forecast is good. However, if it is in fact raining at 10am on Saturday, we'll repair to Clowns on King Street instead for a cup of coffee (http://www.google.co.uk/maps?q=3DCB1+1LN). If there's any doubt about what's happening on the day, please call me on 07710 469624. Thanks, Andrew _______________________________________________ IDcards-Cambridge mailing list IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Tue Oct 21 14:18:51 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (tom woodcock) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 13:18:51 +0000 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Home Office and Union opposition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: --_c694c653-29b5-4c95-ab56-df36b8df0891_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Looks like the arguments Meg Hillier is putting to the unions are horribly = divisive and playing on nationalist and racist ideologies. As the governm= ent tries to get out or the economic crisis=2C whilst trying to ensure the= re is no mass movement to make key demands for basic rights =2C it is likel= y to use the British Jobs for British workers argument. This is likely to b= e compounded by rising unemployment. This is a marginal position in the tra= de unions at the moment and we aim to keep it that way!!=20 It would be good if someone from the campaign came to talk at the trades co= uncil in the new year. =20 I aim to put an amendment to a motion on 'new media in schools' at NUT conf= erence that would see us affiliate to No2ID.=20 Tom Woodcock Secretary=2C Cambridge & District Trade Union Council Tel: 07712893552 From: Alexandra.Hayes@proquest.co.uk To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Home Office and Union opposition Date: Tue=2C 21 Oct 2008 10:28:00 +0100 Home Office trying to get the unions to drop opposition to ID cards: =20 http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/oct/20/idcards =20 _________________________________________________________________ X Factor: latest video=2C features and more. Click here! http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/115454063/direct/01/= --_c694c653-29b5-4c95-ab56-df36b8df0891_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Looks like the arguments Meg Hillier is putting to the unions are horribly = divisive and playing on nationalist and racist ideologies.  =3B As the = government tries =3B to get out or the economic crisis=2C whilst trying= to ensure there is no mass movement to make key demands for basic rights = =2C it is likely to use the British Jobs for British workers argument. This= is likely to be compounded by rising unemployment. This is a marginal posi= tion in the trade unions at the moment and we aim to keep it that way!!
It would be good if someone from the campaign came to talk at the trad= es council in the new year. =3B


I aim to put an amendment t= o a motion on 'new media in schools' at NUT conference that would see us af= filiate to No2ID.

Tom Woodcock
Secretary=2C Cambridge &=3B District Trade = Union Council
Tel: 07712893552



From: Alexandra.Hayes@proquest.co.uk
To: id= cards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org
Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Home Offic= e and Union opposition
Date: Tue=2C 21 Oct 2008 10:28:00 +0100

Home Office trying to get the unions to drop oppo= sition to ID cards:

 =3B

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008= /oct/20/idcards

 =3B


Get the best wallpapers on the Web - FREE. Click here!= = --_c694c653-29b5-4c95-ab56-df36b8df0891_-- From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Tue Oct 21 14:58:29 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Andrew Watson) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:58:29 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Home Office and Union opposition In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Tom, You wrote: > It would be good if someone from the campaign came to talk at the trades > council in the new year. NO2ID would certainly welcome the opportunity. If you can let me have dates, I'll coordinate with national HQ and see who we can get to speak. > I aim to put an amendment to a motion on 'new media in schools' at NUT > conference that would see us affiliate to No2ID. > > Tom Woodcock > Secretary, Cambridge & District Trade Union Council > Tel: 07712893552 Great idea. As you know, UCU passed a motion rejecting ID cards and affiliating to NO2ID earlier this year, prompted partly by Toby White here in Cambridge. I've CC'd Christina Zaba, who's active in the NUJ in Bristol, and acts as NO2ID's union liaison. I know she'd be happy to help with this if needbe. Cheers, Andrew From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Tue Oct 21 15:25:21 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Jeremy Henty) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:25:21 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] NO2ID Saturday stall, Saturday 25th October In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081021142521.GI2994@omphalos.singularity> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 10:49:18AM +0100, Hayes, Alexandra wrote: > I'll be there Andrew- can be flexible about times... Me too. Jeremy Henty From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Tue Oct 21 16:31:38 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Chris McCabe) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:31:38 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] NO2ID Saturday stall, Saturday 25th October References: <20081021142521.GI2994@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <008101c93392$1c037440$0201a8c0@mccabe9ax6rgq8> Was there a gd turnout for the film? Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Henty" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [IDcards-Cambridge] NO2ID Saturday stall, Saturday 25th October > On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 10:49:18AM +0100, Hayes, Alexandra wrote: > > I'll be there Andrew- can be flexible about times... > > Me too. > > Jeremy Henty > > _______________________________________________ > IDcards-Cambridge mailing list > IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org > http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.2/1737 - Release Date: 10/21/2008 09:10 From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Tue Oct 21 17:03:45 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Marcus Titannicus) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:03:45 +0000 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] NO2ID Saturday stall, Saturday 25th October In-Reply-To: <008101c93392$1c037440$0201a8c0@mccabe9ax6rgq8> References: <20081021142521.GI2994@omphalos.singularity> <008101c93392$1c037440$0201a8c0@mccabe9ax6rgq8> Message-ID: 'Twas a full house! =3B-) Marc > Was there a gd turnout for the film? > Chris _________________________________________________________________ X Factor: latest video=2C features and more. Click here! http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/115454063/direct/01/= From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Wed Oct 22 14:39:21 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Andrew Watson) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:39:21 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Cambridge News: Council vows to fight ID cards Message-ID: Hi, Just noticed this story on page 2 of today's News: > Council vows to fight ID cards > > Plans to introduce ID cards have been attacked by Cambridge County Council. > > ... > > The council resolved to make representations "at every possible stage" > reiterating its opposition and will not require ID cards to be produced when > residents access services. > > ... Good news! I'll try and get hold of a copy of the relevant council minutes. Congratulations to all on this list who helped achieve this! Cheers, Andrew From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Thu Oct 23 10:45:18 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Andrew Watson) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:45:18 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Cambridge News: Council vows to fight ID cards In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, I wrote: > Just noticed this story on page 2 of today's News: > >> Council vows to fight ID cards The News's story is now available online: http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn_news_cambridge/displayarticle.asp?id=359909 The agenda item at the council meeting on 21st October is here (item 11a): http://www2.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/db/council2.nsf/e0c624b01b2e9ade80256b14004eb73b/69d91ce062fb2eaf802574de003a90f2?OpenDocument >From the News's story, it seems the motion was amended to remove the NO2ID affiliation, but the substantive part remained unchanged. Meeting minutes should be available via the same link in a few days. Now that the city and county have passed anti-ID-card motions, we just need to get South Cambs District Council on-board for the complete set! Does anyone have any relevant contacts? Cheers, Andrew From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Thu Oct 23 11:28:53 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Andrew Watson) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 11:28:53 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] NO2ID Saturday stall, Saturday 25th October In-Reply-To: <20081021142521.GI2994@omphalos.singularity> References: <20081021142521.GI2994@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: Jeremy, Alex, You wrote: >> I'll be there Andrew- can be flexible about times... > > Me too. Thanks! Stuart Weir and I will be there from 10am to noon. Could the two of you be there from noon to 2pm? Sorry about that being lunchtime, but I'd be happy to stay on the stall and buy sandwiches all round at 1pm. Anyone else care to join us? Say from 2pm onwards? BTW, forecast is windy, but at the moment it still looks as though we'll be able to go ahead. Cheers, Andrew From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Thu Oct 23 11:31:04 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Hayes, Alexandra) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 11:31:04 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] NO2ID Saturday stall, Saturday 25th October In-Reply-To: References: <20081021142521.GI2994@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: Fine with me! -----Original Message----- From: idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org [mailto:idcards-cambridge-ad= min@lists.beasts.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Watson Sent: 23 October 2008 11:29 To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org Subject: Re: [IDcards-Cambridge] NO2ID Saturday stall, Saturday 25th Octobe= r Jeremy, Alex, You wrote: >> I'll be there Andrew- can be flexible about times... > > Me too. Thanks! Stuart Weir and I will be there from 10am to noon. Could the two of you be there from noon to 2pm? Sorry about that being lunchtime, but I'd be happy to stay on the stall and buy sandwiches all round at 1pm. Anyone else care to join us? Say from 2pm onwards? BTW, forecast is windy, but at the moment it still looks as though we'll be able to go ahead. Cheers, Andrew _______________________________________________ IDcards-Cambridge mailing list IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Thu Oct 23 13:59:05 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Jeremy Henty) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:59:05 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] NO2ID Saturday stall, Saturday 25th October In-Reply-To: References: <20081021142521.GI2994@omphalos.singularity> Message-ID: <20081023125905.GA2942@omphalos.singularity> On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 11:28:53AM +0100, Andrew Watson wrote: > ... Could the two of you be there from noon to 2pm? Yes, I can. Jeremy From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Tue Oct 28 14:35:44 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Andrew Watson) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 15:35:44 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back Message-ID: Hi, Albert Gazeley is back from Hong King, and has written another letter to CEN - see below. This is another great opportunity to write a letter to the paper for publication. letters@cambridge-news.co.uk. Don't forget to include your street address and 'phone number (neither of which will be published). Cheers, Andrew http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn%5Fnews%5Fletters/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=361713 Protection offered by ID cards >From Albert Gazeley I WAS amazed to see in the News that Cambridgeshire County Council intends to aid and abet the criminals in our society by fighting ID cards. I have carried and been protected by my ID card all my life and I have lost count of the times it has come to my aid. Obviously Cllr Susan Normington has led a very sheltered life but if you are caught up in difficult situations and the police need a quick and reliable identification to allow you to pass on unobstructed, an ID card is indispensable. Of course, if you have something to hide it is a different matter. The British introduced ID cards in Hong Kong (where I have lived for over 40 years) and believe me it is a far safer place to dine out, go for a drink, or park your car than Cambridge. One only has to read the Cambridge News to realise that Cambridge is no longer safe in broad daylight, let alone after dark. I agree that ID cards are useless when it comes to terrorism - in fact nothing can work against a determined terrorist, but against the petty criminals, car thieves, bullies, loiterers, counterfeiters, alcohol abusers and all those that wish to hide themselves from the law by being anonymous, ID cards are indispensable. It is amazing how well- behaved a person becomes as soon as the police can check their real identity instead of being told false information, with the police spending days and taxpayers' money trying to trace people that don't exist. Sadly people are thumbing their nose at the law in the UK and many authorities seem to be on the side of the lawbreakers rather than the law-abiding silent majority. Waterbeach Published: 28/10/2008 From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Tue Oct 28 17:27:43 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Rend Shakir) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 17:27:43 +0000 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: --_691ba2d3-ad3e-498c-baa1-7d0a91165b84_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If Hong Kong is so great why doesn't he just F*** off back to where he came= from? This is a very damaging letter... quite powerfully written.... > To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org > From: andrew.watson@no2id.net > Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back > Date: Tue=2C 28 Oct 2008 15:35:44 +0100 >=20 > Hi=2C >=20 > Albert Gazeley is back from Hong King=2C and has written another letter t= o > CEN - see below. >=20 > This is another great opportunity to write a letter to the paper for > publication. letters@cambridge-news.co.uk. Don't forget to include your > street address and 'phone number (neither of which will be published). >=20 > Cheers=2C >=20 > Andrew >=20 >=20 > http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn%5Fnews%5Fletters/DisplayArticle.asp?ID= =3D361713 >=20 > Protection offered by ID cards > From Albert Gazeley >=20 > I WAS amazed to see in the News that Cambridgeshire County Council intend= s > to aid and abet the criminals in our society by fighting ID cards. >=20 > I have carried and been protected by my ID card all my life and I have lo= st > count of the times it has come to my aid. >=20 > Obviously Cllr Susan Normington has led a very sheltered life but if you > are caught up in difficult situations and the police need a quick and > reliable identification to allow you to pass on unobstructed=2C an ID car= d is > indispensable. Of course=2C if you have something to hide it is a differe= nt > matter. >=20 > The British introduced ID cards in Hong Kong (where I have lived for over > 40 years) and believe me it is a far safer place to dine out=2C go for a > drink=2C or park your car than Cambridge. >=20 > One only has to read the Cambridge News to realise that Cambridge is no > longer safe in broad daylight=2C let alone after dark. >=20 > I agree that ID cards are useless when it comes to terrorism - in fact > nothing can work against a determined terrorist=2C but against the petty > criminals=2C car thieves=2C bullies=2C loiterers=2C counterfeiters=2C alc= ohol abusers > and all those that wish to hide themselves from the law by being anonymou= s=2C > ID cards are indispensable. It is amazing how well- behaved a person > becomes as soon as the police can check their real identity instead of > being told false information=2C with the police spending days and taxpaye= rs' > money trying to trace people that don't exist. >=20 > Sadly people are thumbing their nose at the law in the UK and many > authorities seem to be on the side of the lawbreakers rather than the > law-abiding silent majority. >=20 > Waterbeach >=20 > Published: 28/10/2008 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IDcards-Cambridge mailing list > IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org > http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge _________________________________________________________________ Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Space= s. It's easy! http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=3Dcreate&wx_url=3D/friends.= aspx&mkt=3Den-us= --_691ba2d3-ad3e-498c-baa1-7d0a91165b84_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If Hong Kong is so great why doesn't he just F*** off back to where he came= from?
This is a very damaging letter... quite powerfully written....

>=3B To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org
>=3B From: andr= ew.watson@no2id.net
>=3B Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is ba= ck
>=3B Date: Tue=2C 28 Oct 2008 15:35:44 +0100
>=3B
>=3B H= i=2C
>=3B
>=3B Albert Gazeley is back from Hong King=2C and has = written another letter to
>=3B CEN - see below.
>=3B
>=3B T= his is another great opportunity to write a letter to the paper for
>= =3B publication. letters@cambridge-news.co.uk. Don't forget to include your=
>=3B street address and 'phone number (neither of which will be publi= shed).
>=3B
>=3B Cheers=2C
&g= t=3B
>=3B Andrew
>=3B
>= =3B
>=3B http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn%5Fnews%5Fletters/DisplayA= rticle.asp?ID=3D361713
>=3B
>=3B Protection offered by ID cards<= br>>=3B From Albert Gazeley
>=3B
>=3B I WAS amazed to see in t= he News that Cambridgeshire County Council intends
>=3B to aid and abe= t the criminals in our society by fighting ID cards.
>=3B
>=3B I= have carried and been protected by my ID card all my life and I have lost<= br>>=3B count of the times it has come to my aid.
>=3B
>=3B Ob= viously Cllr Susan Normington has led a very sheltered life but if you
&= gt=3B are caught up in difficult situations and the police need a quick and=
>=3B reliable identification to allow you to pass on unobstructed=2C = an ID card is
>=3B indispensable. Of course=2C if you have something t= o hide it is a different
>=3B matter.
>=3B
>=3B The British= introduced ID cards in Hong Kong (where I have lived for over
>=3B 40= years) and believe me it is a far safer place to dine out=2C go for a
&= gt=3B drink=2C or park your car than Cambridge.
>=3B
>=3B One on= ly has to read the Cambridge News to realise that Cambridge is no
>=3B= longer safe in broad daylight=2C let alone after dark.
>=3B
>= =3B I agree that ID cards are useless when it comes to terrorism - in fact<= br>>=3B nothing can work against a determined terrorist=2C but against th= e petty
>=3B criminals=2C car thieves=2C bullies=2C loiterers=2C count= erfeiters=2C alcohol abusers
>=3B and all those that wish to hide them= selves from the law by being anonymous=2C
>=3B ID cards are indispensa= ble. It is amazing how well- behaved a person
>=3B becomes as soon as = the police can check their real identity instead of
>=3B being told fa= lse information=2C with the police spending days and taxpayers'
>=3B m= oney trying to trace people that don't exist.
>=3B
>=3B Sadly pe= ople are thumbing their nose at the law in the UK and many
>=3B author= ities seem to be on the side of the lawbreakers rather than the
>=3B l= aw-abiding silent majority.
>=3B
>=3B Waterbeach
>=3B
&= gt=3B Published: 28/10/2008
>=3B
>=3B __________________________= _____________________
>=3B IDcards-Cambridge mailing list
>=3B ID= cards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org
>=3B http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/= listinfo/idcards-cambridge

Invite your mail contacts to join= your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! Try it! = --_691ba2d3-ad3e-498c-baa1-7d0a91165b84_-- From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Tue Oct 28 18:28:59 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Marcus Titannicus) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:28:59 +0000 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just a shame he didn't stay in the authoritarian subordinate known as Hong = Kong=2C isn't it? Let us hope and pray we never EVER become like China=2C because the likes o= f us would be thrown into jail (or worse) as soon as we dared to raise our = voices in dissent to ANYTHING!! Noone would claim we are anything as democratic as we could be in this coun= try=2C but we're a darn sight closer to the ideal than China is. Marc > Hi=2C > > Albert Gazeley is back from Hong King=2C and has written another letter t= o > CEN - see below. > > This is another great opportunity to write a letter to the paper for > publication. letters@cambridge-news.co.uk. Don't forget to include your > street address and 'phone number (neither of which will be published). > > Cheers=2C > > Andrew > > > http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn%5Fnews%5Fletters/DisplayArticle.asp?ID= =3D361713 > > Protection offered by ID cards > From Albert Gazeley > > I WAS amazed to see in the News that Cambridgeshire County Council intend= s > to aid and abet the criminals in our society by fighting ID cards. > > I have carried and been protected by my ID card all my life and I have lo= st > count of the times it has come to my aid. > > Obviously Cllr Susan Normington has led a very sheltered life but if you > are caught up in difficult situations and the police need a quick and > reliable identification to allow you to pass on unobstructed=2C an ID car= d is > indispensable. Of course=2C if you have something to hide it is a differe= nt > matter. > > The British introduced ID cards in Hong Kong (where I have lived for over > 40 years) and believe me it is a far safer place to dine out=2C go for a > drink=2C or park your car than Cambridge. > > One only has to read the Cambridge News to realise that Cambridge is no > longer safe in broad daylight=2C let alone after dark. > > I agree that ID cards are useless when it comes to terrorism - in fact > nothing can work against a determined terrorist=2C but against the petty > criminals=2C car thieves=2C bullies=2C loiterers=2C counterfeiters=2C alc= ohol abusers > and all those that wish to hide themselves from the law by being anonymou= s=2C > ID cards are indispensable. It is amazing how well- behaved a person > becomes as soon as the police can check their real identity instead of > being told false information=2C with the police spending days and taxpaye= rs' > money trying to trace people that don't exist. > > Sadly people are thumbing their nose at the law in the UK and many > authorities seem to be on the side of the lawbreakers rather than the > law-abiding silent majority. > > Waterbeach > > Published: 28/10/2008 > > _______________________________________________ > IDcards-Cambridge mailing list > IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org > http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge _________________________________________________________________ Catch up on all the latest celebrity gossip=20 http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/115454061/direct/01/= From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Tue Oct 28 18:35:52 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Marcus Titannicus) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:35:52 +0000 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] RE: Mr Gazeley is back In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In fact=2C whoever ends up writing to the CEN in response to this piece of = bile should point out just how undemocratic China actually is by comparison= to the UK=2C and that by introducing a National Identity Card=2C we will b= e another step towards being more like China=2C which is nothing to aspire = to. By the way=2C I won't be responding=2C because my response to this muppet w= ould be unprintable! Wouldn't surprise me if we're talking about a reactionary old Brigadier typ= e here=2C by the way he talks - you know=2C 'bring back the birch=2C it nev= er did me any harm etc'=2C type of thing. =3B-) Marc > Hi=2C > > Albert Gazeley is back from Hong King=2C and has written another letter t= o > CEN - see below. > > This is another great opportunity to write a letter to the paper for > publication. letters@cambridge-news.co.uk. Don't forget to include your > street address and 'phone number (neither of which will be published). > > Cheers=2C > > Andrew > > > http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn%5Fnews%5Fletters/DisplayArticle.asp?ID= =3D361713 > > Protection offered by ID cards > From Albert Gazeley > > I WAS amazed to see in the News that Cambridgeshire County Council intend= s > to aid and abet the criminals in our society by fighting ID cards. > > I have carried and been protected by my ID card all my life and I have lo= st > count of the times it has come to my aid. > > Obviously Cllr Susan Normington has led a very sheltered life but if you > are caught up in difficult situations and the police need a quick and > reliable identification to allow you to pass on unobstructed=2C an ID car= d is > indispensable. Of course=2C if you have something to hide it is a differe= nt > matter. > > The British introduced ID cards in Hong Kong (where I have lived for over > 40 years) and believe me it is a far safer place to dine out=2C go for a > drink=2C or park your car than Cambridge. > > One only has to read the Cambridge News to realise that Cambridge is no > longer safe in broad daylight=2C let alone after dark. > > I agree that ID cards are useless when it comes to terrorism - in fact > nothing can work against a determined terrorist=2C but against the petty > criminals=2C car thieves=2C bullies=2C loiterers=2C counterfeiters=2C alc= ohol abusers > and all those that wish to hide themselves from the law by being anonymou= s=2C > ID cards are indispensable. It is amazing how well- behaved a person > becomes as soon as the police can check their real identity instead of > being told false information=2C with the police spending days and taxpaye= rs' > money trying to trace people that don't exist. > > Sadly people are thumbing their nose at the law in the UK and many > authorities seem to be on the side of the lawbreakers rather than the > law-abiding silent majority. > > Waterbeach > > Published: 28/10/2008 > > _______________________________________________ > IDcards-Cambridge mailing list > IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org > http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge _________________________________________________________________ See the most popular videos on the web=20 http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/115454061/direct/01/= From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Tue Oct 28 17:42:09 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Andrew Watson) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:42:09 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rend, You wrote: > This is a very damaging letter... quite powerfully written.... ... but full of flaws which need pointing out. As with most people who think they're in favour of ID cards, he's isn't arguing for the scheme that the Home Office plans to introduce, but instead something else of his own imagining. For instance, there's no compulsion in the Identity Cards Act to carry a card, so anyone challenged about his/her "real identity" by "the police" would just say "don't have an ID card on me". One could also point out that compulsory ID cards are no hinderance to crime in (say) Italy, where the Mafia thrives. Also, what's all this about "difficult situations where the police need a quick and reliable identification to allow you to pass on unobstructed"? Mr Gazeley has clearly been living in an authoritarian country for far too long, and is used to the police stopping law-abiding citizens for no reason. I'm happy to say this has never happened to me in the UK. When wartime ID cards were abolished, Lord Goddard ruled: "it is obvious that the police now, as a matter of routine, demand the production of national registration indemnity cards whenever they stop or interrogate a motorist for whatever cause. Of course, if they are looking for a stolen car or have reason to believe that a particular motorist is engaged in committing a crime, that is one thing, but to demand a national registration identity card from all and sundry, for instance, from a lady who may leave her car outside a shop longer than she should, or some trivial matter of that sort, is wholly unreasonable. This Act was passed for security purposes, and not for the purposes for which, apparently, it is now sought to be used. To use Acts of Parliament, passed for particular purposes during war, in times when the war is past, except that technically a state of war exists, tends to turn law-abiding subjects into lawbreakers, which is a most undesirable state of affairs." See: http://www.privacyinternational.org/article.shtml?cmd%5B347%5D=x-347-61886 The News already has a letter from me about the Council resolution in its in-tray, but I haven't made any of the above points - if anyone wants to put any of them in their own words in a letter, please be my guest. Cheers, Andrew From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Tue Oct 28 22:22:11 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Chris McCabe) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 22:22:11 -0000 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] RE: Mr Gazeley is back References: Message-ID: <003e01c9394b$9fa6f7e0$0201a8c0@mccabe9ax6rgq8> Or maybe the oul sod works for or invests in whatever wonky company the Gov't is thinking of giving the ID cards contract to... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marcus Titannicus" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:35 PM Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] RE: Mr Gazeley is back In fact, whoever ends up writing to the CEN in response to this piece of bile should point out just how undemocratic China actually is by comparison to the UK, and that by introducing a National Identity Card, we will be another step towards being more like China, which is nothing to aspire to. By the way, I won't be responding, because my response to this muppet would be unprintable! Wouldn't surprise me if we're talking about a reactionary old Brigadier type here, by the way he talks - you know, 'bring back the birch, it never did me any harm etc', type of thing. ;-) Marc > Hi, > > Albert Gazeley is back from Hong King, and has written another letter to > CEN - see below. > > This is another great opportunity to write a letter to the paper for > publication. letters@cambridge-news.co.uk. Don't forget to include your > street address and 'phone number (neither of which will be published). > > Cheers, > > Andrew > > > http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn%5Fnews%5Fletters/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=361713 > > Protection offered by ID cards > From Albert Gazeley > > I WAS amazed to see in the News that Cambridgeshire County Council intends > to aid and abet the criminals in our society by fighting ID cards. > > I have carried and been protected by my ID card all my life and I have lost > count of the times it has come to my aid. > > Obviously Cllr Susan Normington has led a very sheltered life but if you > are caught up in difficult situations and the police need a quick and > reliable identification to allow you to pass on unobstructed, an ID card is > indispensable. Of course, if you have something to hide it is a different > matter. > > The British introduced ID cards in Hong Kong (where I have lived for over > 40 years) and believe me it is a far safer place to dine out, go for a > drink, or park your car than Cambridge. > > One only has to read the Cambridge News to realise that Cambridge is no > longer safe in broad daylight, let alone after dark. > > I agree that ID cards are useless when it comes to terrorism - in fact > nothing can work against a determined terrorist, but against the petty > criminals, car thieves, bullies, loiterers, counterfeiters, alcohol abusers > and all those that wish to hide themselves from the law by being anonymous, > ID cards are indispensable. It is amazing how well- behaved a person > becomes as soon as the police can check their real identity instead of > being told false information, with the police spending days and taxpayers' > money trying to trace people that don't exist. > > Sadly people are thumbing their nose at the law in the UK and many > authorities seem to be on the side of the lawbreakers rather than the > law-abiding silent majority. > > Waterbeach > > Published: 28/10/2008 > > _______________________________________________ > IDcards-Cambridge mailing list > IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org > http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge _________________________________________________________________ See the most popular videos on the web http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/115454061/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ IDcards-Cambridge mailing list IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.4/1752 - Release Date: 10/28/2008 10:04 From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Wed Oct 29 09:02:28 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Andrew Watson) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:02:28 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] RE: Mr Gazeley is back In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Marc, You wrote: > In fact, whoever ends up writing to the CEN in response to this piece of > bile should point out just how undemocratic China actually is by comparison > to the UK, and that by introducing a National Identity Card, we will be > another step towards being more like China, which is nothing to aspire to. > > By the way, I won't be responding, because my response to this muppet would > be unprintable! But in fact you have the basis of an excellent letter there - why not write it? > Wouldn't surprise me if we're talking about a reactionary old Brigadier >type > here, by the way he talks - you know, 'bring back the birch, it >never did me > any harm etc', type of thing. He may indeed - but the important thing is to criticise the ideas, not the person. Cheers, Andrew From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Wed Oct 29 11:33:11 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Hayes, Alexandra) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 11:33:11 +0000 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: --_000_F322F8D64BAD61459427B12F0E6AE22E9437BBE795CBGPQMAILBX01_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's the same old schtick he came out with in his many other letters to the= news, parroting the usual lies, with no consideration of the points made b= y the many people who took the time to respond to him. Marc, go on, send that letter, the more the merrier! Am about to send this if people think it's OK: Dear Sir, >From our previous exchange of letters in the CEN, I am not surprised that M= r Albert Gazeley (Letters, 28th October) offers very little in the way of a= ctual evidence as to how exactly ID cards are meant to help solve the probl= ems he discusses, nor why ID cards, rather than better implementation of ex= isting procedures, are the only possible answer. I am also disappointed tha= t he dismisses principled opposition to being forced to use Soviet-style in= ternal passports with the borderline-libellous assertion that we must all b= e criminals or criminal sympathisers, since 'if you have nothing to hide, y= ou have nothing to fear'. I would ask him to consider this. I am a victim of abuse and I don't want my violent partner to find out wher= e I am. He has contacted me recently and said he knows someone who works on= the National Identity Register who will tell him my address. The governmen= t has said it will fine me =A31,000 if I don't update my address details on= the Register when I move. Do I have nothing to fear? I work with children but recently failed a CRB check and lost my job. On in= vestigation I discover that my details on the NIR have been wrongly entered= or maliciously altered; but I have no power to change this because my iden= tity has explicitly been made wholly subject to state control and the info = on there is presumed to be accurate, at the whim of the Home Secretary with= no appeals process. Do I have nothing to fear? I am a witness in a serious criminal trial, under a witness protection sche= me. A civil servant who works on the NIR recently downloaded my details ont= o a CD and left them on a train. Still nothing to fear? The ID cards scheme is opposed by many councils across the land, as well as= millions of law-abiding citizens; public figures such as the former head o= f M15, the outgoing Director of Public Prosecutions, the former Acting Chie= f Constable of Suffolk and the Government's own Information Commissioner ha= ve warned of the dangers that it presents. It seems to me that it is Mr Gaz= eley, not Councillor Normington, who is the one who has led a 'sheltered li= fe' if he cannot see the clear warnings from history about the dangers of s= liding further into the 'surveillance society' of which the NIR is a key pa= rt. This dangerous and illiberal scheme should be scrapped immediately. From: idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org [mailto:idcards-cambridge-ad= min@lists.beasts.org] On Behalf Of Rend Shakir Sent: 28 October 2008 17:28 To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org Subject: RE: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back If Hong Kong is so great why doesn't he just F*** off back to where he came= from? This is a very damaging letter... quite powerfully written.... > To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org > From: andrew.watson@no2id.net > Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 15:35:44 +0100 > > Hi, > > Albert Gazeley is back from Hong King, and has written another letter to > CEN - see below. > > This is another great opportunity to write a letter to the paper for > publication. letters@cambridge-news.co.uk. Don't forget to include your > street address and 'phone number (neither of which will be published). > > Cheers, > > Andrew > > > http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn%5Fnews%5Fletters/DisplayArticle.asp?ID= =3D361713 > > Protection offered by ID cards > From Albert Gazeley > > I WAS amazed to see in the News that Cambridgeshire County Council intend= s > to aid and abet the criminals in our society by fighting ID cards. > > I have carried and been protected by my ID card all my life and I have lo= st > count of the times it has come to my aid. > > Obviously Cllr Susan Normington has led a very sheltered life but if you > are caught up in difficult situations and the police need a quick and > reliable identification to allow you to pass on unobstructed, an ID card = is > indispensable. Of course, if you have something to hide it is a different > matter. > > The British introduced ID cards in Hong Kong (where I have lived for over > 40 years) and believe me it is a far safer place to dine out, go for a > drink, or park your car than Cambridge. > > One only has to read the Cambridge News to realise that Cambridge is no > longer safe in broad daylight, let alone after dark. > > I agree that ID cards are useless when it comes to terrorism - in fact > nothing can work against a determined terrorist, but against the petty > criminals, car thieves, bullies, loiterers, counterfeiters, alcohol abuse= rs > and all those that wish to hide themselves from the law by being anonymou= s, > ID cards are indispensable. It is amazing how well- behaved a person > becomes as soon as the police can check their real identity instead of > being told false information, with the police spending days and taxpayers= ' > money trying to trace people that don't exist. > > Sadly people are thumbing their nose at the law in the UK and many > authorities seem to be on the side of the lawbreakers rather than the > law-abiding silent majority. > > Waterbeach > > Published: 28/10/2008 > > _______________________________________________ > IDcards-Cambridge mailing list > IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org > http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge ________________________________ Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Space= s. It's easy! Try it! --_000_F322F8D64BAD61459427B12F0E6AE22E9437BBE795CBGPQMAILBX01_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

It’s the same old schtick he came out with in his many other letters to the news, parroting the usual lies, with no consideration = of the points made by the many people who took the time to respond to him.

 

Marc, go on, send that letter, the more the merrier!

 

Am about to send this if people think it’s OK:

 <= /p>

 

Dear Sir,

From our previous exchange of letters in the CEN, I am not surprised that Mr Alb= ert Gazeley (Letters, 28th October) offers very little in the way of actual evidence as to how exactly ID cards are meant to help solve the problems he discusses, nor why ID cards, rather than better implementation of existing procedures, are the only possible answer. I am also disappointed that he di= smisses principled opposition to being forced to use Soviet-style internal passport= s with the borderline-libellous assertion that we must all be criminals or cr= iminal sympathisers, since ‘if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear’.

 

I would ask him to consider this.

 

I am a victim of abuse and I don’t want my violent partner to find out where I am. He has contacted me recently and said he knows someone who work= s on the National Identity Register who will tell him my address. The government= has said it will fine me £1,000 if I don’t update my address detail= s on the Register when I move. Do I have nothing to fear?

 

I work with children but recently faile= d a CRB check and lost my job. On investigation I discover that my details on t= he NIR have been wrongly entered or maliciously altered; but I have no power t= o change this because my identity has explicitly been made wholly subject to state control and the info on there is presumed to be accurate, at the whim= of the Home Secretary with no appeals process. Do I have nothing to fear?=

 

I am a witness in a serious criminal tr= ial, under a witness protection scheme. A civil servant who works on the NIR recently downloaded my details onto a CD and left them on a train.

 

Still nothing to fear?

 

The ID cards scheme is opposed by many councils across the land, as well as millions of law-abiding citizens; publ= ic figures such as the former head of M15, the outgoing Director of Public Prosecutions, the former Acting Chief Constable of Suffolk and the Governme= nt’s own Information Commissioner have warned of the dangers that it presents. I= t seems to me that it is Mr Gazeley, not Councillor Normington, who is the one who has led a ‘sheltered li= fe’ if he cannot see the clear warnings from history about the dangers of slidi= ng further into the ‘surveillance society’ of which the NIR is a key part. This dangerous and illiberal scheme should be scrapped immediately.<= /span>

 

 

From: idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.or= g [mailto:idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org] On Behalf Of Rend Shakir
Sent: 28 October 2008 17:28
To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org
Subject: RE: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back

 

If Hong Kong is so great why doesn't he = just F*** off back to where he came from?
This is a very damaging letter... quite powerfully written....


> To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org
> From: andrew.watson@no2id.net
> Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 15:35:44 +0100
>
> Hi,
>
> Albert Gazeley is back from Hong King, and has written another letter = to
> CEN - see below.
>
> This is another great opportunity to write a letter to the paper for > publication. letters@cambridge-news.co.uk. Don't forget to include you= r
> street address and 'phone number (neither of which will be published).=
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andrew
>
>
> http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn%5Fnews%5Fletters/DisplayArticle.asp?ID= =3D361713
>
> Protection offered by ID cards
> From Albert Gazeley
>
> I WAS amazed to see in the News that Cambridgeshire County Council int= ends
> to aid and abet the criminals in our society by fighting ID cards.
>
> I have carried and been protected by my ID card all my life and I have lost
> count of the times it has come to my aid.
>
> Obviously Cllr Susan Normington has led a very sheltered life but if y= ou
> are caught up in difficult situations and the police need a quick and<= br> > reliable identification to allow you to pass on unobstructed, an ID ca= rd is
> indispensable. Of course, if you have something to hide it is a differ= ent
> matter.
>
> The British introduced ID cards in Hong Kong (where I have lived for o= ver
> 40 years) and believe me it is a far safer place to dine out, go for a=
> drink, or park your car than Cambridge.
>
> One only has to read the Cambridge News to realise that Cambridge is n= o
> longer safe in broad daylight, let alone after dark.
>
> I agree that ID cards are useless when it comes to terrorism - in fact=
> nothing can work against a determined terrorist, but against the petty=
> criminals, car thieves, bullies, loiterers, counterfeiters, alcohol abusers
> and all those that wish to hide themselves from the law by being anonymous,
> ID cards are indispensable. It is amazing how well- behaved a person > becomes as soon as the police can check their real identity instead of=
> being told false information, with the police spending days and taxpay= ers'
> money trying to trace people that don't exist.
>
> Sadly people are thumbing their nose at the law in the UK and many
> authorities seem to be on the side of the lawbreakers rather than the<= br> > law-abiding silent majority.
>
> Waterbeach
>
> Published: 28/10/2008
>
> _______________________________________________
> IDcards-Cambridge mailing list
> IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org
> http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge<= /span>

Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! Try it!

--_000_F322F8D64BAD61459427B12F0E6AE22E9437BBE795CBGPQMAILBX01_-- From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Wed Oct 29 11:47:41 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Marcus Titannicus) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 11:47:41 +0000 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good points=2C well made. Go forth and rectify! :-) Marc =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D It=92s the same old schtick he came out with in his many other letters to the news=2C parroting the usual lies=2C with no considerat= ion of the points made by the many people who took the time to respond to him. =20 Marc=2C go on=2C send that letter=2C the more the merrier! =20 Am about to send this if people think it=92s OK: =20 Dear Sir=2C From our previous exchange of letters in the CEN=2C I am not surprised that Mr A= lbert Gazeley (Letters=2C 28th October) offers very little in the way of actual evidence as to how exactly ID cards are meant to help solve the problems he discusses=2C nor why ID cards=2C rather than better implementation of exist= ing procedures=2C are the only possible answer. I am also disappointed that he = dismisses principled opposition to being forced to use Soviet-style internal passport= s with the borderline-libellous assertion that we must all be criminals or cr= iminal sympathisers=2C since =91if you have nothing to hide=2C you have nothing to fear=92. =20 I would ask him to consider this. =20 I am a victim of abuse and I don=92t want my violent partner to find out where I am. He has contacted me recently and said he knows someone who work= s on the National Identity Register who will tell him my address. The government= has said it will fine me =A31=2C000 if I don=92t update my address details on the Register when I move. Do I have nothing to fear? =20 I work with children but recently failed a CRB check and lost my job. On investigation I discover that my details on t= he NIR have been wrongly entered or maliciously altered=3B but I have no power= to change this because my identity has explicitly been made wholly subject to state control and the info on there is presumed to be accurate=2C at the wh= im of the Home Secretary with no appeals process. Do I have nothing to fear? =20 I am a witness in a serious criminal trial=2C under a witness protection scheme. A civil servant who works on the NIR recently downloaded my details onto a CD and left them on a train.=20 =20 Still nothing to fear? =20 The ID cards scheme is opposed by many councils across the land=2C as well as millions of law-abiding citizens=3B = public figures such as the former head of M15=2C the outgoing Director of Public Prosecutions=2C the former Acting Chief Constable of Suffolk and the Govern= ment=92s own Information Commissioner have warned of the dangers that it presents. I= t seems to me that it is Mr Gazeley=2C not Councillor Normington=2C who is the one who has led a =91sheltered life= =92 if he cannot see the clear warnings from history about the dangers of slidi= ng further into the =91surveillance society=92 of which the NIR is a key part. This dangerous and illiberal scheme should be scrapped immediately. =20 =20 From: idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org [mailto:idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org] On Behalf Of Rend Shakir Sent: 28 October 2008 17:28 To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org Subject: RE: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back =20 If Hong Kong is so great why doesn't he just F*** off back to where he came from? This is a very damaging letter... quite powerfully written.... > To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org > From: andrew.watson@no2id.net > Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back > Date: Tue=2C 28 Oct 2008 15:35:44 +0100 >=20 > Hi=2C >=20 > Albert Gazeley is back from Hong King=2C and has written another letter t= o > CEN - see below. >=20 > This is another great opportunity to write a letter to the paper for > publication. letters@cambridge-news.co.uk. Don't forget to include your > street address and 'phone number (neither of which will be published). >=20 > Cheers=2C >=20 > Andrew >=20 >=20 > http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn%5Fnews%5Fletters/DisplayArticle.asp?ID= =3D361713 >=20 > Protection offered by ID cards > From Albert Gazeley >=20 > I WAS amazed to see in the News that Cambridgeshire County Council intend= s > to aid and abet the criminals in our society by fighting ID cards. >=20 > I have carried and been protected by my ID card all my life and I have lost > count of the times it has come to my aid. >=20 > Obviously Cllr Susan Normington has led a very sheltered life but if you > are caught up in difficult situations and the police need a quick and > reliable identification to allow you to pass on unobstructed=2C an ID car= d is > indispensable. Of course=2C if you have something to hide it is a differe= nt > matter. >=20 > The British introduced ID cards in Hong Kong (where I have lived for over > 40 years) and believe me it is a far safer place to dine out=2C go for a > drink=2C or park your car than Cambridge. >=20 > One only has to read the Cambridge News to realise that Cambridge is no > longer safe in broad daylight=2C let alone after dark. >=20 > I agree that ID cards are useless when it comes to terrorism - in fact > nothing can work against a determined terrorist=2C but against the petty > criminals=2C car thieves=2C bullies=2C loiterers=2C counterfeiters=2C alc= ohol abusers > and all those that wish to hide themselves from the law by being anonymous=2C > ID cards are indispensable. It is amazing how well- behaved a person > becomes as soon as the police can check their real identity instead of > being told false information=2C with the police spending days and taxpaye= rs' > money trying to trace people that don't exist. >=20 > Sadly people are thumbing their nose at the law in the UK and many > authorities seem to be on the side of the lawbreakers rather than the > law-abiding silent majority. >=20 > Waterbeach >=20 > Published: 28/10/2008 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IDcards-Cambridge mailing list > IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org > http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! Try it! _________________________________________________________________ Catch up on all the latest celebrity gossip=20 http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/115454061/direct/01/= From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Wed Oct 29 12:05:08 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Chris Howell) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:05:08 +0000 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3a45bae80810290505i2e8a05exf39290ad5f7673dc@mail.gmail.com> Here's my attempt: Dear Sir, I haven't led a particularly sheltered life, but I confess to never being in "difficult situations and the police need a quick and reliable identification" as described by Mr Gazeley in his recent letter. But then I also disagree that Cambridge is so dangerous we need to hold up undemocratic regimes like China where police can stop you just to demand papers as models for law enforcement. If a police officer did need to question my identity, there would be no problem using a combination of questioning, examinng existing forms of identity and applying thought and common sense - a test that would be failed by someone trying to hide their identity. The last thing needed is the planned ID card backed up by a huge big brother database. Police assuming cards are infallible will not question if the information on the card is consistent with the full complex set of personal circumstances that actually defines an identity. Of course criminals will have fake ID cards - it only takes one person to infiltrate the thousands of bureaucrats in whose hands our valuable identities will then rest. The ID card and database will then be an expensive white elephant, that will hand my identity over to the state, and put me more at risk from criminals faking their ID. Which is why I will never co-operate with the scheme, and I am pleased our local Councils have come to the same view. Chris 2008/10/28 Andrew Watson : > Hi, > > Albert Gazeley is back from Hong King, and has written another letter to > CEN - see below. > > This is another great opportunity to write a letter to the paper for > publication. letters@cambridge-news.co.uk. Don't forget to include your > street address and 'phone number (neither of which will be published). > > Cheers, > > Andrew > > > http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn%5Fnews%5Fletters/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=361713 > > Protection offered by ID cards > From Albert Gazeley > > I WAS amazed to see in the News that Cambridgeshire County Council intends > to aid and abet the criminals in our society by fighting ID cards. > > I have carried and been protected by my ID card all my life and I have lost > count of the times it has come to my aid. > > Obviously Cllr Susan Normington has led a very sheltered life but if you > are caught up in difficult situations and the police need a quick and > reliable identification to allow you to pass on unobstructed, an ID card is > indispensable. Of course, if you have something to hide it is a different > matter. > > The British introduced ID cards in Hong Kong (where I have lived for over > 40 years) and believe me it is a far safer place to dine out, go for a > drink, or park your car than Cambridge. > > One only has to read the Cambridge News to realise that Cambridge is no > longer safe in broad daylight, let alone after dark. > > I agree that ID cards are useless when it comes to terrorism - in fact > nothing can work against a determined terrorist, but against the petty > criminals, car thieves, bullies, loiterers, counterfeiters, alcohol abusers > and all those that wish to hide themselves from the law by being anonymous, > ID cards are indispensable. It is amazing how well- behaved a person > becomes as soon as the police can check their real identity instead of > being told false information, with the police spending days and taxpayers' > money trying to trace people that don't exist. > > Sadly people are thumbing their nose at the law in the UK and many > authorities seem to be on the side of the lawbreakers rather than the > law-abiding silent majority. > > Waterbeach > > Published: 28/10/2008 > > _______________________________________________ > IDcards-Cambridge mailing list > IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org > http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge > From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Wed Oct 29 12:14:58 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Chris McCabe) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:14:58 -0000 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back References: <3a45bae80810290505i2e8a05exf39290ad5f7673dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <019901c939bf$f614e0f0$0201a8c0@mccabe9ax6rgq8> Trific! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Howell" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back > Here's my attempt: > > Dear Sir, > > I haven't led a particularly sheltered life, but I confess to never > being in "difficult situations and the police need a quick and > reliable identification" as described by Mr Gazeley in his recent > letter. But then I also disagree that Cambridge is so dangerous we > need to hold up undemocratic regimes like China where police can stop > you just to demand papers as models for law enforcement. > > If a police officer did need to question my identity, there would be > no problem using a combination of questioning, examinng existing forms > of identity and applying thought and common sense - a test that would > be failed by someone trying to hide their identity. > > The last thing needed is the planned ID card backed up by a huge big > brother database. Police assuming cards are infallible will not > question if the information on the card is consistent with the full > complex set of personal circumstances that actually defines an > identity. Of course criminals will have fake ID cards - it only takes > one person to infiltrate the thousands of bureaucrats in whose hands > our valuable identities will then rest. The ID card and database will > then be an expensive white elephant, that will hand my identity over > to the state, and put me more at risk from criminals faking their ID. > Which is why I will never co-operate with the scheme, and I am pleased > our local Councils have come to the same view. > > Chris > > 2008/10/28 Andrew Watson : > > Hi, > > > > Albert Gazeley is back from Hong King, and has written another letter to > > CEN - see below. > > > > This is another great opportunity to write a letter to the paper for > > publication. letters@cambridge-news.co.uk. Don't forget to include your > > street address and 'phone number (neither of which will be published). > > > > Cheers, > > > > Andrew > > > > > > http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn%5Fnews%5Fletters/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=361713 > > > > Protection offered by ID cards > > From Albert Gazeley > > > > I WAS amazed to see in the News that Cambridgeshire County Council intends > > to aid and abet the criminals in our society by fighting ID cards. > > > > I have carried and been protected by my ID card all my life and I have lost > > count of the times it has come to my aid. > > > > Obviously Cllr Susan Normington has led a very sheltered life but if you > > are caught up in difficult situations and the police need a quick and > > reliable identification to allow you to pass on unobstructed, an ID card is > > indispensable. Of course, if you have something to hide it is a different > > matter. > > > > The British introduced ID cards in Hong Kong (where I have lived for over > > 40 years) and believe me it is a far safer place to dine out, go for a > > drink, or park your car than Cambridge. > > > > One only has to read the Cambridge News to realise that Cambridge is no > > longer safe in broad daylight, let alone after dark. > > > > I agree that ID cards are useless when it comes to terrorism - in fact > > nothing can work against a determined terrorist, but against the petty > > criminals, car thieves, bullies, loiterers, counterfeiters, alcohol abusers > > and all those that wish to hide themselves from the law by being anonymous, > > ID cards are indispensable. It is amazing how well- behaved a person > > becomes as soon as the police can check their real identity instead of > > being told false information, with the police spending days and taxpayers' > > money trying to trace people that don't exist. > > > > Sadly people are thumbing their nose at the law in the UK and many > > authorities seem to be on the side of the lawbreakers rather than the > > law-abiding silent majority. > > > > Waterbeach > > > > Published: 28/10/2008 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > IDcards-Cambridge mailing list > > IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org > > http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge > > > > _______________________________________________ > IDcards-Cambridge mailing list > IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org > http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.4/1754 - Release Date: 10/29/2008 07:45 From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Wed Oct 29 11:13:52 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Andrew Watson) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:13:52 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alex, You wrote: > Am about to send this if people think it's OK: Looks great! I suggest you make it crystal clear that the situations you outline are hypothetical - "If I were a victim of abuse and I didn't want my violent partner ... " etc. Cheers, Andrew From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Wed Oct 29 12:05:12 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Chris McCabe) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:05:12 -0000 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back References: Message-ID: <016501c939be$99080960$0201a8c0@mccabe9ax6rgq8> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0162_01C939BE.98C7A500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Excellent letter, but for the hard of thinking, maybe u need to make it = clear that those 3 scenarios are 'ifs' & not yr biography.... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Hayes, Alexandra=20 To: 'idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org'=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 11:33 AM Subject: RE: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back It's the same old schtick he came out with in his many other letters = to the news, parroting the usual lies, with no consideration of the = points made by the many people who took the time to respond to him. =20 Marc, go on, send that letter, the more the merrier! =20 Am about to send this if people think it's OK: =20 =20 Dear Sir, From our previous exchange of letters in the CEN, I am not surprised = that Mr Albert Gazeley (Letters, 28th October) offers very little in the = way of actual evidence as to how exactly ID cards are meant to help = solve the problems he discusses, nor why ID cards, rather than better = implementation of existing procedures, are the only possible answer. I = am also disappointed that he dismisses principled opposition to being = forced to use Soviet-style internal passports with the = borderline-libellous assertion that we must all be criminals or criminal = sympathisers, since 'if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to = fear'. =20 I would ask him to consider this. =20 I am a victim of abuse and I don't want my violent partner to find out = where I am. He has contacted me recently and said he knows someone who = works on the National Identity Register who will tell him my address. = The government has said it will fine me =A31,000 if I don't update my = address details on the Register when I move. Do I have nothing to fear? =20 I work with children but recently failed a CRB check and lost my job. = On investigation I discover that my details on the NIR have been wrongly = entered or maliciously altered; but I have no power to change this = because my identity has explicitly been made wholly subject to state = control and the info on there is presumed to be accurate, at the whim of = the Home Secretary with no appeals process. Do I have nothing to fear? =20 I am a witness in a serious criminal trial, under a witness protection = scheme. A civil servant who works on the NIR recently downloaded my = details onto a CD and left them on a train.=20 =20 Still nothing to fear? =20 The ID cards scheme is opposed by many councils across the land, as = well as millions of law-abiding citizens; public figures such as the = former head of M15, the outgoing Director of Public Prosecutions, the = former Acting Chief Constable of Suffolk and the Government's own = Information Commissioner have warned of the dangers that it presents. It = seems to me that it is Mr Gazeley, not Councillor Normington, who is the = one who has led a 'sheltered life' if he cannot see the clear warnings = from history about the dangers of sliding further into the 'surveillance = society' of which the NIR is a key part. This dangerous and illiberal = scheme should be scrapped immediately. =20 =20 From: idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org = [mailto:idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org] On Behalf Of Rend = Shakir Sent: 28 October 2008 17:28 To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org Subject: RE: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back =20 If Hong Kong is so great why doesn't he just F*** off back to where he = came from? This is a very damaging letter... quite powerfully written.... > To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org > From: andrew.watson@no2id.net > Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 15:35:44 +0100 >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Albert Gazeley is back from Hong King, and has written another = letter to > CEN - see below. >=20 > This is another great opportunity to write a letter to the paper for > publication. letters@cambridge-news.co.uk. Don't forget to include = your > street address and 'phone number (neither of which will be = published). >=20 > Cheers, >=20 > Andrew >=20 >=20 > = http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn%5Fnews%5Fletters/DisplayArticle.asp?ID= =3D361713 >=20 > Protection offered by ID cards > From Albert Gazeley >=20 > I WAS amazed to see in the News that Cambridgeshire County Council = intends > to aid and abet the criminals in our society by fighting ID cards. >=20 > I have carried and been protected by my ID card all my life and I = have lost > count of the times it has come to my aid. >=20 > Obviously Cllr Susan Normington has led a very sheltered life but if = you > are caught up in difficult situations and the police need a quick = and > reliable identification to allow you to pass on unobstructed, an ID = card is > indispensable. Of course, if you have something to hide it is a = different > matter. >=20 > The British introduced ID cards in Hong Kong (where I have lived for = over > 40 years) and believe me it is a far safer place to dine out, go for = a > drink, or park your car than Cambridge. >=20 > One only has to read the Cambridge News to realise that Cambridge is = no > longer safe in broad daylight, let alone after dark. >=20 > I agree that ID cards are useless when it comes to terrorism - in = fact > nothing can work against a determined terrorist, but against the = petty > criminals, car thieves, bullies, loiterers, counterfeiters, alcohol = abusers > and all those that wish to hide themselves from the law by being = anonymous, > ID cards are indispensable. It is amazing how well- behaved a person > becomes as soon as the police can check their real identity instead = of > being told false information, with the police spending days and = taxpayers' > money trying to trace people that don't exist. >=20 > Sadly people are thumbing their nose at the law in the UK and many > authorities seem to be on the side of the lawbreakers rather than = the > law-abiding silent majority. >=20 > Waterbeach >=20 > Published: 28/10/2008 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IDcards-Cambridge mailing list > IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org > http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live = Spaces. It's easy! Try it! -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.4/1754 - Release Date: = 10/29/2008 07:45 ------=_NextPart_000_0162_01C939BE.98C7A500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Excellent letter, but for the hard = of thinking,=20 maybe u need to make it clear that those 3 scenarios are 'ifs' & not = yr=20 biography....
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Hayes, Alexandra =
To: 'idcards-cambridge@l= ists.beasts.org'=20
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, = 2008 11:33=20 AM
Subject: RE: = [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr=20 Gazeley is back

It=92s=20 the same old schtick he came out with in his many other letters to the = news,=20 parroting the usual lies, with no consideration of the points made by = the many=20 people who took the time to respond to him.

 

Marc,=20 go on, send that letter, the more the merrier!

 

Am=20 about to send this if people think it=92s OK:

 

 

Dear=20 Sir,

From = our previous=20 exchange of letters in the CEN, I am not surprised that Mr Albert = Gazeley=20 (Letters, 28th October) offers very little in the way of actual = evidence as to=20 how exactly ID cards are meant to help solve the problems he = discusses, nor=20 why ID cards, rather than better implementation of existing = procedures, are=20 the only possible answer. I am also disappointed that he dismisses = principled=20 opposition to being forced to use Soviet-style internal passports with = the=20 borderline-libellous assertion that we must all be criminals or = criminal=20 sympathisers, since =91if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing = to=20 fear=92.

 

I would = ask him=20 to consider this.

 

I am a = victim of=20 abuse and I don=92t want my violent partner to find out where I am. He = has=20 contacted me recently and said he knows someone who works on the = National=20 Identity Register who will tell him my address. The government has = said it=20 will fine me =A31,000 if I don=92t update my address details on the = Register when=20 I move. Do I have nothing to fear?

 

I work = with=20 children but recently failed a CRB check and lost my job. On = investigation I=20 discover that my details on the NIR have been wrongly entered or = maliciously=20 altered; but I have no power to change this because my identity has = explicitly=20 been made wholly subject to state control and the info on there is = presumed to=20 be accurate, at the whim of the Home Secretary with no appeals = process. Do I=20 have nothing to fear?

 

I am a = witness in=20 a serious criminal trial, under a witness protection scheme. A civil = servant=20 who works on the NIR recently downloaded my details onto a CD and left = them on=20 a train.

 

Still = nothing to=20 fear?

 

The ID = cards=20 scheme is opposed by many councils across the land, as well as = millions of=20 law-abiding citizens; public figures such as the former head of M15, = the=20 outgoing Director of Public Prosecutions, the former Acting Chief = Constable of=20 Suffolk and the Government=92s own Information Commissioner have = warned of the=20 dangers that it presents. It seems to me that it is Mr = Gazeley, not = Councillor=20 Normington, who is the one who has led a =91sheltered life=92 if he = cannot see the=20 clear warnings from history about the dangers of sliding further into = the=20 =91surveillance society=92 of which the NIR is a key part. This = dangerous and=20 illiberal scheme should be scrapped immediately.

 

 

From:=20 idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org=20 [mailto:idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org] On Behalf Of = Rend=20 Shakir
Sent: 28 October 2008 17:28
To:=20 idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org
Subject: RE: = [IDcards-Cambridge]=20 Mr Gazeley is back

 

If Hong = Kong is so=20 great why doesn't he just F*** off back to where he came from?
This = is a=20 very damaging letter... quite powerfully written....


> = To:=20 idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org
> From:=20 andrew.watson@no2id.net
> Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr = Gazeley is=20 back
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 15:35:44 +0100
>
>=20 Hi,
>
> Albert Gazeley is back from Hong King, and has = written=20 another letter to
> CEN - see below.
>
> This is = another=20 great opportunity to write a letter to the paper for
> = publication.=20 letters@cambridge-news.co.uk. Don't forget to include your
> = street=20 address and 'phone number (neither of which will be = published).
>=20
> Cheers,
>
> Andrew
>
>
>=20 = http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn%5Fnews%5Fletters/DisplayArticle.asp?ID= =3D361713
>=20
> Protection offered by ID cards
> From Albert = Gazeley
>=20
> I WAS amazed to see in the News that Cambridgeshire County = Council=20 intends
> to aid and abet the criminals in our society by = fighting ID=20 cards.
>
> I have carried and been protected by my ID = card all my=20 life and I have lost
> count of the times it has come to my = aid.
>=20
> Obviously Cllr Susan Normington has led a very sheltered life = but if=20 you
> are caught up in difficult situations and the police need = a quick=20 and
> reliable identification to allow you to pass on = unobstructed, an=20 ID card is
> indispensable. Of course, if you have something to = hide it=20 is a different
> matter.
>
> The British introduced = ID=20 cards in Hong Kong (where I have lived for over
> 40 years) and = believe=20 me it is a far safer place to dine out, go for a
> drink, or = park your=20 car than Cambridge.
>
> One only has to read the = Cambridge News=20 to realise that Cambridge is no
> longer safe in broad daylight, = let=20 alone after dark.
>
> I agree that ID cards are useless = when it=20 comes to terrorism - in fact
> nothing can work against a = determined=20 terrorist, but against the petty
> criminals, car thieves, = bullies,=20 loiterers, counterfeiters, alcohol abusers
> and all those that = wish to=20 hide themselves from the law by being anonymous,
> ID cards are=20 indispensable. It is amazing how well- behaved a person
> = becomes as=20 soon as the police can check their real identity instead of
> = being told=20 false information, with the police spending days and = taxpayers'
> money=20 trying to trace people that don't exist.
>
> Sadly people = are=20 thumbing their nose at the law in the UK and many
> authorities = seem to=20 be on the side of the lawbreakers rather than the
> law-abiding = silent=20 majority.
>
> Waterbeach
>
> Published:=20 28/10/2008
>
>=20 _______________________________________________
> = IDcards-Cambridge=20 mailing list
> IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org
>=20 = http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge

Invite = your mail=20 contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's = easy! Try it!


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG = -=20 http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.4/1754 = -=20 Release Date: 10/29/2008 07:45
------=_NextPart_000_0162_01C939BE.98C7A500-- From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Wed Oct 29 12:33:16 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Rend Shakir) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:33:16 +0000 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back In-Reply-To: <3a45bae80810290505i2e8a05exf39290ad5f7673dc@mail.gmail.com> References: <3a45bae80810290505i2e8a05exf39290ad5f7673dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: --_0afc1602-0c9f-4f68-8fcb-9548dc22779d_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Chris et al. Isn't it Hong Kong rather than China he was talking about? Rend > From: cjh129@gmail.com > To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org > Subject: Re: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back > Date: Wed=2C 29 Oct 2008 12:05:08 +0000 >=20 > Here's my attempt: >=20 > Dear Sir=2C >=20 > I haven't led a particularly sheltered life=2C but I confess to never > being in "difficult situations and the police need a quick and > reliable identification" as described by Mr Gazeley in his recent > letter. But then I also disagree that Cambridge is so dangerous we > need to hold up undemocratic regimes like China where police can stop > you just to demand papers as models for law enforcement. >=20 > If a police officer did need to question my identity=2C there would be > no problem using a combination of questioning=2C examinng existing forms > of identity and applying thought and common sense - a test that would > be failed by someone trying to hide their identity. >=20 > The last thing needed is the planned ID card backed up by a huge big > brother database. Police assuming cards are infallible will not > question if the information on the card is consistent with the full > complex set of personal circumstances that actually defines an > identity. Of course criminals will have fake ID cards - it only takes > one person to infiltrate the thousands of bureaucrats in whose hands > our valuable identities will then rest. The ID card and database will > then be an expensive white elephant=2C that will hand my identity over > to the state=2C and put me more at risk from criminals faking their ID. > Which is why I will never co-operate with the scheme=2C and I am pleased > our local Councils have come to the same view. >=20 > Chris >=20 > 2008/10/28 Andrew Watson : > > Hi=2C > > > > Albert Gazeley is back from Hong King=2C and has written another letter= to > > CEN - see below. > > > > This is another great opportunity to write a letter to the paper for > > publication. letters@cambridge-news.co.uk. Don't forget to include your > > street address and 'phone number (neither of which will be published). > > > > Cheers=2C > > > > Andrew > > > > > > http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn%5Fnews%5Fletters/DisplayArticle.asp?= ID=3D361713 > > > > Protection offered by ID cards > > From Albert Gazeley > > > > I WAS amazed to see in the News that Cambridgeshire County Council inte= nds > > to aid and abet the criminals in our society by fighting ID cards. > > > > I have carried and been protected by my ID card all my life and I have = lost > > count of the times it has come to my aid. > > > > Obviously Cllr Susan Normington has led a very sheltered life but if yo= u > > are caught up in difficult situations and the police need a quick and > > reliable identification to allow you to pass on unobstructed=2C an ID c= ard is > > indispensable. Of course=2C if you have something to hide it is a diffe= rent > > matter. > > > > The British introduced ID cards in Hong Kong (where I have lived for ov= er > > 40 years) and believe me it is a far safer place to dine out=2C go for = a > > drink=2C or park your car than Cambridge. > > > > One only has to read the Cambridge News to realise that Cambridge is no > > longer safe in broad daylight=2C let alone after dark. > > > > I agree that ID cards are useless when it comes to terrorism - in fact > > nothing can work against a determined terrorist=2C but against the pett= y > > criminals=2C car thieves=2C bullies=2C loiterers=2C counterfeiters=2C a= lcohol abusers > > and all those that wish to hide themselves from the law by being anonym= ous=2C > > ID cards are indispensable. It is amazing how well- behaved a person > > becomes as soon as the police can check their real identity instead of > > being told false information=2C with the police spending days and taxpa= yers' > > money trying to trace people that don't exist. > > > > Sadly people are thumbing their nose at the law in the UK and many > > authorities seem to be on the side of the lawbreakers rather than the > > law-abiding silent majority. > > > > Waterbeach > > > > Published: 28/10/2008 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > IDcards-Cambridge mailing list > > IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org > > http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge > > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IDcards-Cambridge mailing list > IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org > http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge _________________________________________________________________ Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Space= s. It's easy! http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=3Dcreate&wx_url=3D/friends.= aspx&mkt=3Den-us= --_0afc1602-0c9f-4f68-8fcb-9548dc22779d_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Chris et al.
Isn't it Hong Kong rather than China he was talking abou= t?
Rend

>=3B From: cjh129@gmail.com
>=3B To: idcards-cambr= idge@lists.beasts.org
>=3B Subject: Re: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley= is back
>=3B Date: Wed=2C 29 Oct 2008 12:05:08 +0000
>=3B
&g= t=3B Here's my attempt:
>=3B
>=3B Dear Sir=2C
>=3B
>= =3B I haven't led a particularly sheltered life=2C but I confess to never>=3B being in "difficult situations and the police need a quick and
= >=3B reliable identification" as described by Mr Gazeley in his recent>=3B letter. But then I also disagree that Cambridge is so dangerous we<= br>>=3B need to hold up undemocratic regimes like China where police can = stop
>=3B you just to demand papers as models for law enforcement.
= >=3B
>=3B If a police officer did need to question my identity=2C t= here would be
>=3B no problem using a combination of questioning=2C ex= aminng existing forms
>=3B of identity and applying thought and common= sense - a test that would
>=3B be failed by someone trying to hide th= eir identity.
>=3B
>=3B The last thing needed is the planned ID = card backed up by a huge big
>=3B brother database. Police assuming ca= rds are infallible will not
>=3B question if the information on the ca= rd is consistent with the full
>=3B complex set of personal circumstan= ces that actually defines an
>=3B identity. Of course criminals will h= ave fake ID cards - it only takes
>=3B one person to infiltrate the th= ousands of bureaucrats in whose hands
>=3B our valuable identities wil= l then rest. The ID card and database will
>=3B then be an expensive w= hite elephant=2C that will hand my identity over
>=3B to the state=2C = and put me more at risk from criminals faking their ID.
>=3B Which is = why I will never co-operate with the scheme=2C and I am pleased
>=3B o= ur local Councils have come to the same view.
>=3B
>=3B Chris>=3B
>=3B 2008/10/28 Andrew Watson <=3Bandrew.watson@no2id.net&g= t=3B:
>=3B >=3B Hi=2C
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B Albert Gazel= ey is back from Hong King=2C and has written another letter to
>=3B &g= t=3B CEN - see below.
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B This is another gre= at opportunity to write a letter to the paper for
>=3B >=3B publicat= ion. letters@cambridge-news.co.uk. Don't forget to include your
>=3B &= gt=3B street address and 'phone number (neither of which will be published)= .
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B Cheers= =2C
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B And= rew
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B http://www.cambridge= -news.co.uk/cn%5Fnews%5Fletters/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=3D361713
>=3B &g= t=3B
>=3B >=3B Protection offered by ID cards
>=3B >=3B From = Albert Gazeley
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B I WAS amazed to see in the= News that Cambridgeshire County Council intends
>=3B >=3B to aid an= d abet the criminals in our society by fighting ID cards.
>=3B >=3B<= br>>=3B >=3B I have carried and been protected by my ID card all my lif= e and I have lost
>=3B >=3B count of the times it has come to my aid= .
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B Obviously Cllr Susan Normington has led= a very sheltered life but if you
>=3B >=3B are caught up in difficu= lt situations and the police need a quick and
>=3B >=3B reliable ide= ntification to allow you to pass on unobstructed=2C an ID card is
>=3B= >=3B indispensable. Of course=2C if you have something to hide it is a d= ifferent
>=3B >=3B matter.
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B The Bri= tish introduced ID cards in Hong Kong (where I have lived for over
>= =3B >=3B 40 years) and believe me it is a far safer place to dine out=2C = go for a
>=3B >=3B drink=2C or park your car than Cambridge.
>= =3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B One only has to read the Cambridge News to real= ise that Cambridge is no
>=3B >=3B longer safe in broad daylight=2C = let alone after dark.
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B I agree that ID car= ds are useless when it comes to terrorism - in fact
>=3B >=3B nothin= g can work against a determined terrorist=2C but against the petty
>= =3B >=3B criminals=2C car thieves=2C bullies=2C loiterers=2C counterfeite= rs=2C alcohol abusers
>=3B >=3B and all those that wish to hide them= selves from the law by being anonymous=2C
>=3B >=3B ID cards are ind= ispensable. It is amazing how well- behaved a person
>=3B >=3B becom= es as soon as the police can check their real identity instead of
>=3B= >=3B being told false information=2C with the police spending days and t= axpayers'
>=3B >=3B money trying to trace people that don't exist.>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B Sadly people are thumbing their nose at th= e law in the UK and many
>=3B >=3B authorities seem to be on the sid= e of the lawbreakers rather than the
>=3B >=3B law-abiding silent ma= jority.
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B Waterbeach
>=3B >=3B
&g= t=3B >=3B Published: 28/10/2008
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B _______= ________________________________________
>=3B >=3B IDcards-Cambridge= mailing list
>=3B >=3B IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org
>=3B= >=3B http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge
>= =3B >=3B
>=3B
>=3B ___________________________________________= ____
>=3B IDcards-Cambridge mailing list
>=3B IDcards-Cambridge@l= ists.beasts.org
>=3B http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-= cambridge

Invite your mail contacts to join your friends lis= t with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! Try it! = --_0afc1602-0c9f-4f68-8fcb-9548dc22779d_-- From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Wed Oct 29 14:00:35 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Hayes, Alexandra) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:00:35 +0000 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back In-Reply-To: <016501c939be$99080960$0201a8c0@mccabe9ax6rgq8> References: <016501c939be$99080960$0201a8c0@mccabe9ax6rgq8> Message-ID: --_000_F322F8D64BAD61459427B12F0E6AE22E9437BBE799CBGPQMAILBX01_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, I made the changes to make it clear those are hypothetical scenario= s and sent it in. Andrew, your letter about the council motion is in today'= s edition... From: idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org [mailto:idcards-cambridge-ad= min@lists.beasts.org] On Behalf Of Chris McCabe Sent: 29 October 2008 12:05 To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org Subject: Re: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back Excellent letter, but for the hard of thinking, maybe u need to make it cle= ar that those 3 scenarios are 'ifs' & not yr biography.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Hayes, Alexandra To: 'idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org' Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 11:33 AM Subject: RE: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back It's the same old schtick he came out with in his many other letters to the= news, parroting the usual lies, with no consideration of the points made b= y the many people who took the time to respond to him. Marc, go on, send that letter, the more the merrier! Am about to send this if people think it's OK: Dear Sir, >From our previous exchange of letters in the CEN, I am not surprised that M= r Albert Gazeley (Letters, 28th October) offers very little in the way of a= ctual evidence as to how exactly ID cards are meant to help solve the probl= ems he discusses, nor why ID cards, rather than better implementation of ex= isting procedures, are the only possible answer. I am also disappointed tha= t he dismisses principled opposition to being forced to use Soviet-style in= ternal passports with the borderline-libellous assertion that we must all b= e criminals or criminal sympathisers, since 'if you have nothing to hide, y= ou have nothing to fear'. I would ask him to consider this. I am a victim of abuse and I don't want my violent partner to find out wher= e I am. He has contacted me recently and said he knows someone who works on= the National Identity Register who will tell him my address. The governmen= t has said it will fine me =A31,000 if I don't update my address details on= the Register when I move. Do I have nothing to fear? I work with children but recently failed a CRB check and lost my job. On in= vestigation I discover that my details on the NIR have been wrongly entered= or maliciously altered; but I have no power to change this because my iden= tity has explicitly been made wholly subject to state control and the info = on there is presumed to be accurate, at the whim of the Home Secretary with= no appeals process. Do I have nothing to fear? I am a witness in a serious criminal trial, under a witness protection sche= me. A civil servant who works on the NIR recently downloaded my details ont= o a CD and left them on a train. Still nothing to fear? The ID cards scheme is opposed by many councils across the land, as well as= millions of law-abiding citizens; public figures such as the former head o= f M15, the outgoing Director of Public Prosecutions, the former Acting Chie= f Constable of Suffolk and the Government's own Information Commissioner ha= ve warned of the dangers that it presents. It seems to me that it is Mr Gaz= eley, not Councillor Normington, who is the one who has led a 'sheltered li= fe' if he cannot see the clear warnings from history about the dangers of s= liding further into the 'surveillance society' of which the NIR is a key pa= rt. This dangerous and illiberal scheme should be scrapped immediately. From: idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org [mailto:idcards-cambridge-ad= min@lists.beasts.org] On Behalf Of Rend Shakir Sent: 28 October 2008 17:28 To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org Subject: RE: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back If Hong Kong is so great why doesn't he just F*** off back to where he came= from? This is a very damaging letter... quite powerfully written.... > To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org > From: andrew.watson@no2id.net > Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 15:35:44 +0100 > > Hi, > > Albert Gazeley is back from Hong King, and has written another letter to > CEN - see below. > > This is another great opportunity to write a letter to the paper for > publication. letters@cambridge-news.co.uk. Don't forget to include your > street address and 'phone number (neither of which will be published). > > Cheers, > > Andrew > > > http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn%5Fnews%5Fletters/DisplayArticle.asp?ID= =3D361713 > > Protection offered by ID cards > From Albert Gazeley > > I WAS amazed to see in the News that Cambridgeshire County Council intend= s > to aid and abet the criminals in our society by fighting ID cards. > > I have carried and been protected by my ID card all my life and I have lo= st > count of the times it has come to my aid. > > Obviously Cllr Susan Normington has led a very sheltered life but if you > are caught up in difficult situations and the police need a quick and > reliable identification to allow you to pass on unobstructed, an ID card = is > indispensable. Of course, if you have something to hide it is a different > matter. > > The British introduced ID cards in Hong Kong (where I have lived for over > 40 years) and believe me it is a far safer place to dine out, go for a > drink, or park your car than Cambridge. > > One only has to read the Cambridge News to realise that Cambridge is no > longer safe in broad daylight, let alone after dark. > > I agree that ID cards are useless when it comes to terrorism - in fact > nothing can work against a determined terrorist, but against the petty > criminals, car thieves, bullies, loiterers, counterfeiters, alcohol abuse= rs > and all those that wish to hide themselves from the law by being anonymou= s, > ID cards are indispensable. It is amazing how well- behaved a person > becomes as soon as the police can check their real identity instead of > being told false information, with the police spending days and taxpayers= ' > money trying to trace people that don't exist. > > Sadly people are thumbing their nose at the law in the UK and many > authorities seem to be on the side of the lawbreakers rather than the > law-abiding silent majority. > > Waterbeach > > Published: 28/10/2008 > > _______________________________________________ > IDcards-Cambridge mailing list > IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org > http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge ________________________________ Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Space= s. It's easy! Try it! ________________________________ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.4/1754 - Release Date: 10/29/2008 = 07:45 --_000_F322F8D64BAD61459427B12F0E6AE22E9437BBE799CBGPQMAILBX01_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks, I made the changes to make it clear those are hypothetical scenarios and sent it in. Andrew, your letter about the counci= l motion is in today’s edition...

 

From: idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.or= g [mailto:idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org] On Behalf Of Chris McCabe
Sent: 29 October 2008 12:05
To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org
Subject: Re: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back

 

Excellent= letter, but for the hard of thinking, maybe u need to make it clear that those 3 scenarios are 'ifs' & not yr biography....

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, Oct= ober 29, 2008 11:33 AM

Subject: RE: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back

 

It’s the same old schtick he came out with in his many= other letters to the news, parroting the usual lies, with no consideration of the points made by the many people who took the time to respond to him.

 

Marc, go on, send that letter, the more the merrier!

 

Am about to send this if people think it’s OK:

 

 

Dear Sir,

From our previous exchange of letters in the CEN, I am not surprised that Mr Alb= ert Gazeley (Letters, 28th October) offers very little in the way of actual evidence as to how exactly ID cards are meant to help solve the problems he discusses, nor why ID cards, rather than better implementation of existing procedures, are the only possible answer. I am also disappointed that he dismisses principled opposition to being forced to use Soviet-style interna= l passports with the borderline-libellous assertion that we must all be crimi= nals or criminal sympathisers, since ‘if you have nothing to hide, you hav= e nothing to fear’.

 

I would ask him to consider this.

 

I am a victim of abuse and I don’t want my violent partner to find out = where I am. He has contacted me recently and said he knows someone who works on the National Identity Register who will tell him my address. The government has said it will fine me =A31,000 if I don’t update my address details on= the Register when I move. Do I have nothing to fear?

 

I work with children but recently faile= d a CRB check and lost my job. On investigation I discover that my details on t= he NIR have been wrongly entered or maliciously altered; but I have no power t= o change this because my identity has explicitly been made wholly subject to state control and the info on there is presumed to be accurate, at the whim= of the Home Secretary with no appeals process. Do I have nothing to fear?

 

I am a witness in a serious criminal tr= ial, under a witness protection scheme. A civil servant who works on the NIR recently downloaded my details onto a CD and left them on a train.

 

Still nothing to fear?

 

The ID cards scheme is opposed by many councils across the land, as well as millions of law-abiding citizens; publ= ic figures such as the former head of M15, the outgoing Director of Public Prosecutions, the former Acting Chief Constable of Suffolk and the Governme= nt’s own Information Commissioner have warned of the dangers that it presents. I= t seems to me that it is Mr Gazeley, not Councillor Normington, who is the one who has led a ‘sheltered li= fe’ if he cannot see the clear warnings from history about the dangers of sliding fur= ther into the ‘surveillance society’ of which the NIR is a key part.= This dangerous and illiberal scheme should be scrapped immediately.

 

 

From: idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.or= g [mailto:idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org] On Behalf Of Rend Shakir
Sent: 28 October 2008 17:28
To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org
Subject: RE: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back

 

If Hong Kong is so great why doesn't he = just F*** off back to where he came from?
This is a very damaging letter... quite powerfully written....


> To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org
> From: andrew.watson@no2id.net
> Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 15:35:44 +0100
>
> Hi,
>
> Albert Gazeley is back from Hong King, and has written another letter = to
> CEN - see below.
>
> This is another great opportunity to write a letter to the paper for > publication. letters@cambridge-news.co.uk. Don't forget to include you= r
> street address and 'phone number (neither of which will be published).=
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andrew
>
>
> http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn%5Fnews%5Fletters/DisplayArticle.asp?ID= =3D361713
>
> Protection offered by ID cards
> From Albert Gazeley
>
> I WAS amazed to see in the News that Cambridgeshire County Council int= ends
> to aid and abet the criminals in our society by fighting ID cards.
>
> I have carried and been protected by my ID card all my life and I have lost
> count of the times it has come to my aid.
>
> Obviously Cllr Susan Normington has led a very sheltered life but if y= ou
> are caught up in difficult situations and the police need a quick and<= br> > reliable identification to allow you to pass on unobstructed, an ID ca= rd is
> indispensable. Of course, if you have something to hide it is a differ= ent
> matter.
>
> The British introduced ID cards in Hong Kong (where I have lived for o= ver
> 40 years) and believe me it is a far safer place to dine out, go for a=
> drink, or park your car than Cambridge.
>
> One only has to read the Cambridge News to realise that Cambridge is n= o
> longer safe in broad daylight, let alone after dark.
>
> I agree that ID cards are useless when it comes to terrorism - in fact=
> nothing can work against a determined terrorist, but against the petty=
> criminals, car thieves, bullies, loiterers, counterfeiters, alcohol abusers
> and all those that wish to hide themselves from the law by being anonymous,
> ID cards are indispensable. It is amazing how well- behaved a person > becomes as soon as the police can check their real identity instead of=
> being told false information, with the police spending days and taxpay= ers'
> money trying to trace people that don't exist.
>
> Sadly people are thumbing their nose at the law in the UK and many
> authorities seem to be on the side of the lawbreakers rather than the<= br> > law-abiding silent majority.
>
> Waterbeach
>
> Published: 28/10/2008
>
> _______________________________________________
> IDcards-Cambridge mailing list
> IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org
> http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge<= /span>

Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! Try it!


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.4/1754 - Release Date: 10/29/2008 07:45

--_000_F322F8D64BAD61459427B12F0E6AE22E9437BBE799CBGPQMAILBX01_-- From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Wed Oct 29 13:26:09 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Tim Morley) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:26:09 +0000 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9768886A-C3D5-453D-810F-EF38E3DA5DF5@argonet.co.uk> On 29 Oct 2008, at 11:13, Andrew Watson wrote: > I suggest you make it crystal clear that the situations you > outline are hypothetical - "If I were a victim of abuse and I > didn't want > my violent partner ... " etc. I'd argue the opposite, in fact -- the arguments have more force if they are presented as real situations rather than hypothetical ones. The worst that could happen is that a few people might actually believe that Alexandra recently lost her job, lives under a witness protection programme and has a violent former partner, but as long as she's happy with that, I don't see how anyone else could object. :o) Tim From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Wed Oct 29 13:36:19 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Andrew Watson) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:36:19 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back In-Reply-To: References: <016501c939be$99080960$0201a8c0@mccabe9ax6rgq8> Message-ID: Alex, You wrote: > Thanks, I made the changes to make it clear those are hypothetical > scenarios and sent it in. Andrew, your letter about the council motion is > in today's edition... Thanks for spotting that - I found it online too - see below. Cheers, Andrew http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn%5Fnews%5Fletters/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=362141 Just say no >From Andrew Watson CONGRATULATIONS to Cambridgeshire County council for refusing to co-operate with the dangerous and wasteful ID Card scheme and its intrusive database of personal information ('Council vows to fight ID cards', October 22). Cambridgeshire joins many other councils across our region which have made similar resolutions, including Cambridge City, Peterborough City, Ipswich Borough, Bedfordshire County, Milton Keynes, Luton Borough and Norwich City councils. If other councils would like to help defend traditional British freedoms against the onslaught of the Database State, I invite them to contact cambridge@no2id.net . Joint NO2ID Cambridge co-ordinator Kimberley Road Cambridge Published: 29/10/2008 From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Wed Oct 29 16:23:46 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Chris McCabe) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 16:23:46 -0000 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back References: <9768886A-C3D5-453D-810F-EF38E3DA5DF5@argonet.co.uk> Message-ID: <001201c939e2$b82def20$0201a8c0@mccabe9ax6rgq8> Nah, it's got to be shown as hypothetical (though they are real experiences for some folk & that cd be stressed), or the likes of Gazeley will say the writer is making false claims; TBH, I read the 1st instance 'straight up' & started to think, poor woman, she must be using a pseudonym... :0) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Morley" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back > On 29 Oct 2008, at 11:13, Andrew Watson wrote: > > > I suggest you make it crystal clear that the situations you > > outline are hypothetical - "If I were a victim of abuse and I > > didn't want > > my violent partner ... " etc. > > I'd argue the opposite, in fact -- the arguments have more force if > they are presented as real situations rather than hypothetical ones. > The worst that could happen is that a few people might actually > believe that Alexandra recently lost her job, lives under a witness > protection programme and has a violent former partner, but as long as > she's happy with that, I don't see how anyone else could object. :o) > > > Tim > > > > _______________________________________________ > IDcards-Cambridge mailing list > IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org > http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.4/1754 - Release Date: 10/29/2008 07:45 From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Wed Oct 29 16:01:01 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Andrew Watson) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 17:01:01 +0100 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] NO2ID Pub meeting, Tuesday night Message-ID: Hi, Cambridge NO2ID pub meetings are usually on the first Wednesday of the month, but since many people are likely to have other plans on 5th November, next week's meeting will be on Tuesday 4th instead. Usual time and venue: Salisbury Arms, 76 Tenison Rd, Cambridge CB1 2DW from 7:30pm. Map: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=cb1+2dw As you may know, the Home Office has announced that it will issue the first biometric visas to a few non-EU spouses and students on 25th November. Despite these not being issued under the terms of the Identity Cards Act 2006, the Home Office will no-doubt trumpet these as being "the fist identity cards". We'll be brainstorming ideas for a local response. Hope to see you there. Cheers, Andrew From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Thu Oct 30 22:41:22 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Chris McCabe) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 22:41:22 -0000 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back References: <016501c939be$99080960$0201a8c0@mccabe9ax6rgq8> Message-ID: <007d01c93ae0$a4c355c0$0201a8c0@mccabe9ax6rgq8> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01C93AE0.A2172180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alexandra, is it OK if I quote (anonymously) from yr letter on my = Friends Reunited NO2ID page? I think those examples show the risks v = well. Chris ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Hayes, Alexandra=20 To: 'idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org'=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:00 PM Subject: RE: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back Thanks, I made the changes to make it clear those are hypothetical = scenarios and sent it in. Andrew, your letter about the council motion = is in today's edition... =20 From: idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org = [mailto:idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org] On Behalf Of Chris = McCabe Sent: 29 October 2008 12:05 To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org Subject: Re: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back =20 Excellent letter, but for the hard of thinking, maybe u need to make = it clear that those 3 scenarios are 'ifs' & not yr biography.... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Hayes, Alexandra=20 To: 'idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org'=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 11:33 AM Subject: RE: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back =20 It's the same old schtick he came out with in his many other letters = to the news, parroting the usual lies, with no consideration of the = points made by the many people who took the time to respond to him. =20 Marc, go on, send that letter, the more the merrier! =20 Am about to send this if people think it's OK: =20 =20 Dear Sir, From our previous exchange of letters in the CEN, I am not surprised = that Mr Albert Gazeley (Letters, 28th October) offers very little in the = way of actual evidence as to how exactly ID cards are meant to help = solve the problems he discusses, nor why ID cards, rather than better = implementation of existing procedures, are the only possible answer. I = am also disappointed that he dismisses principled opposition to being = forced to use Soviet-style internal passports with the = borderline-libellous assertion that we must all be criminals or criminal = sympathisers, since 'if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to = fear'. =20 I would ask him to consider this. =20 I am a victim of abuse and I don't want my violent partner to find = out where I am. He has contacted me recently and said he knows someone = who works on the National Identity Register who will tell him my = address. The government has said it will fine me =A31,000 if I don't = update my address details on the Register when I move. Do I have nothing = to fear? =20 I work with children but recently failed a CRB check and lost my = job. On investigation I discover that my details on the NIR have been = wrongly entered or maliciously altered; but I have no power to change = this because my identity has explicitly been made wholly subject to = state control and the info on there is presumed to be accurate, at the = whim of the Home Secretary with no appeals process. Do I have nothing to = fear? =20 I am a witness in a serious criminal trial, under a witness = protection scheme. A civil servant who works on the NIR recently = downloaded my details onto a CD and left them on a train.=20 =20 Still nothing to fear? =20 The ID cards scheme is opposed by many councils across the land, as = well as millions of law-abiding citizens; public figures such as the = former head of M15, the outgoing Director of Public Prosecutions, the = former Acting Chief Constable of Suffolk and the Government's own = Information Commissioner have warned of the dangers that it presents. It = seems to me that it is Mr Gazeley, not Councillor Normington, who is the = one who has led a 'sheltered life' if he cannot see the clear warnings = from history about the dangers of sliding further into the 'surveillance = society' of which the NIR is a key part. This dangerous and illiberal = scheme should be scrapped immediately. =20 =20 From: idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org = [mailto:idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org] On Behalf Of Rend = Shakir Sent: 28 October 2008 17:28 To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org Subject: RE: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back =20 If Hong Kong is so great why doesn't he just F*** off back to where = he came from? This is a very damaging letter... quite powerfully written.... > To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org > From: andrew.watson@no2id.net > Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 15:35:44 +0100 >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Albert Gazeley is back from Hong King, and has written another = letter to > CEN - see below. >=20 > This is another great opportunity to write a letter to the paper = for > publication. letters@cambridge-news.co.uk. Don't forget to include = your > street address and 'phone number (neither of which will be = published). >=20 > Cheers, >=20 > Andrew >=20 >=20 > = http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn%5Fnews%5Fletters/DisplayArticle.asp?ID= =3D361713 >=20 > Protection offered by ID cards > From Albert Gazeley >=20 > I WAS amazed to see in the News that Cambridgeshire County Council = intends > to aid and abet the criminals in our society by fighting ID cards. >=20 > I have carried and been protected by my ID card all my life and I = have lost > count of the times it has come to my aid. >=20 > Obviously Cllr Susan Normington has led a very sheltered life but = if you > are caught up in difficult situations and the police need a quick = and > reliable identification to allow you to pass on unobstructed, an = ID card is > indispensable. Of course, if you have something to hide it is a = different > matter. >=20 > The British introduced ID cards in Hong Kong (where I have lived = for over > 40 years) and believe me it is a far safer place to dine out, go = for a > drink, or park your car than Cambridge. >=20 > One only has to read the Cambridge News to realise that Cambridge = is no > longer safe in broad daylight, let alone after dark. >=20 > I agree that ID cards are useless when it comes to terrorism - in = fact > nothing can work against a determined terrorist, but against the = petty > criminals, car thieves, bullies, loiterers, counterfeiters, = alcohol abusers > and all those that wish to hide themselves from the law by being = anonymous, > ID cards are indispensable. It is amazing how well- behaved a = person > becomes as soon as the police can check their real identity = instead of > being told false information, with the police spending days and = taxpayers' > money trying to trace people that don't exist. >=20 > Sadly people are thumbing their nose at the law in the UK and many > authorities seem to be on the side of the lawbreakers rather than = the > law-abiding silent majority. >=20 > Waterbeach >=20 > Published: 28/10/2008 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IDcards-Cambridge mailing list > IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org > http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows = Live Spaces. It's easy! Try it! -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.4/1754 - Release Date: = 10/29/2008 07:45 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.4/1754 - Release Date: = 10/29/2008 07:45 ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01C93AE0.A2172180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Alexandra, is it OK if I quote = (anonymously)=20 from yr letter on my Friends Reunited NO2ID page? I think those examples = show=20 the risks v well.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Hayes, Alexandra =
To: 'idcards-cambridge@l= ists.beasts.org'=20
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, = 2008 2:00=20 PM
Subject: RE: = [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr=20 Gazeley is back

Thanks,=20 I made the changes to make it clear those are hypothetical scenarios = and sent=20 it in. Andrew, your letter about the council motion is in today=92s=20 edition...

 

From: idcards-cambridg= e-admin@lists.beasts.org=20 [mailto:idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org] On Behalf Of = Chris=20 McCabe
Sent: 29 October 2008 12:05
To: idcards-cambridge@list= s.beasts.org
Subject:=20 Re: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is = back

 

Excellent=20 letter, but for the hard of thinking, maybe u need to make it clear = that those=20 3 scenarios are 'ifs' & not yr = biography....

----- = Original=20 Message -----

From: Hayes, Alexandra=20

To: 'idcards-cambridge@l= ists.beasts.org'=20

Sent: = Wednesday,=20 October 29, 2008 11:33 AM

Subject: RE:=20 [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back

 

It=92s=20 the same old schtick he came out with in his many other letters to = the news,=20 parroting the usual lies, with no consideration of the points made = by the=20 many people who took the time to respond to = him.

 

Marc,=20 go on, send that letter, the more the merrier!

 

Am=20 about to send this if people think it=92s OK:

 

 

Dear=20 Sir,

From = our=20 previous exchange of letters in the CEN, I am not surprised that Mr = Albert=20 Gazeley (Letters, 28th October) offers very little in the way of = actual=20 evidence as to how exactly ID cards are meant to help solve the = problems he=20 discusses, nor why ID cards, rather than better implementation of = existing=20 procedures, are the only possible answer. I am also disappointed = that he=20 dismisses principled opposition to being forced to use Soviet-style = internal=20 passports with the borderline-libellous assertion that we must all = be=20 criminals or criminal sympathisers, since =91if you have nothing to = hide, you=20 have nothing to fear=92.

 

I = would ask him=20 to consider this.

 

I am = a victim=20 of abuse and I don=92t want my violent partner to find out where I = am. He has=20 contacted me recently and said he knows someone who works on the = National=20 Identity Register who will tell him my address. The government has = said it=20 will fine me =A31,000 if I don=92t update my address details on the = Register=20 when I move. Do I have nothing to fear?

 

I = work with=20 children but recently failed a CRB check and lost my job. On = investigation I=20 discover that my details on the NIR have been wrongly entered or = maliciously=20 altered; but I have no power to change this because my identity has=20 explicitly been made wholly subject to state control and the info on = there=20 is presumed to be accurate, at the whim of the Home Secretary with = no=20 appeals process. Do I have nothing to = fear?

 

I am = a witness=20 in a serious criminal trial, under a witness protection scheme. A = civil=20 servant who works on the NIR recently downloaded my details onto a = CD and=20 left them on a train.

 

Still = nothing=20 to fear?

 

The = ID cards=20 scheme is opposed by many councils across the land, as well as = millions of=20 law-abiding citizens; public figures such as the former head of M15, = the=20 outgoing Director of Public Prosecutions, the former Acting Chief = Constable=20 of Suffolk and the Government=92s own Information Commissioner have = warned of=20 the dangers that it presents. It seems to me that it is Mr=20 Gazeley, not = Councillor Normington, who is the one who has led a =91sheltered = life=92 if he=20 cannot see the clear warnings from history about the dangers of = sliding=20 further into the =91surveillance society=92 of which the NIR is a = key part. This=20 dangerous and illiberal scheme should be scrapped=20 immediately.

 

 

From:=20 idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org=20 [mailto:idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org] On Behalf Of = Rend=20 Shakir
Sent: 28 October 2008 17:28
To:=20 idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org
Subject: RE:=20 [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is = back

 

If = Hong Kong is=20 so great why doesn't he just F*** off back to where he came = from?
This is=20 a very damaging letter... quite powerfully = written....


> To:=20 idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org
> From:=20 andrew.watson@no2id.net
> Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr = Gazeley is=20 back
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 15:35:44 +0100
>
>=20 Hi,
>
> Albert Gazeley is back from Hong King, and has = written=20 another letter to
> CEN - see below.
>
> This is = another=20 great opportunity to write a letter to the paper for
> = publication.=20 letters@cambridge-news.co.uk. Don't forget to include your
> = street=20 address and 'phone number (neither of which will be = published).
>=20
> Cheers,
>
> Andrew
>
>
>=20 = http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn%5Fnews%5Fletters/DisplayArticle.asp?ID= =3D361713
>=20
> Protection offered by ID cards
> From Albert = Gazeley
>=20
> I WAS amazed to see in the News that Cambridgeshire County = Council=20 intends
> to aid and abet the criminals in our society by = fighting ID=20 cards.
>
> I have carried and been protected by my ID = card all=20 my life and I have lost
> count of the times it has come to my = aid.
>
> Obviously Cllr Susan Normington has led a very = sheltered life but if you
> are caught up in difficult = situations and=20 the police need a quick and
> reliable identification to allow = you to=20 pass on unobstructed, an ID card is
> indispensable. Of = course, if you=20 have something to hide it is a different
> matter.
> =
>=20 The British introduced ID cards in Hong Kong (where I have lived for = over
> 40 years) and believe me it is a far safer place to = dine out,=20 go for a
> drink, or park your car than Cambridge.
> =
>=20 One only has to read the Cambridge News to realise that Cambridge is = no
> longer safe in broad daylight, let alone after = dark.
>=20
> I agree that ID cards are useless when it comes to = terrorism - in=20 fact
> nothing can work against a determined terrorist, but = against=20 the petty
> criminals, car thieves, bullies, loiterers,=20 counterfeiters, alcohol abusers
> and all those that wish to = hide=20 themselves from the law by being anonymous,
> ID cards are=20 indispensable. It is amazing how well- behaved a person
> = becomes as=20 soon as the police can check their real identity instead of
> = being=20 told false information, with the police spending days and = taxpayers'
>=20 money trying to trace people that don't exist.
>
> = Sadly people=20 are thumbing their nose at the law in the UK and many
> = authorities=20 seem to be on the side of the lawbreakers rather than the
>=20 law-abiding silent majority.
>
> Waterbeach
> =
>=20 Published: 28/10/2008
>
>=20 _______________________________________________
> = IDcards-Cambridge=20 mailing list
> IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org
>=20 = http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge

Invite = your mail=20 contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's = easy! Try it!


No virus found in this incoming = message.
Checked=20 by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database:=20 270.8.4/1754 - Release Date: 10/29/2008=20 07:45


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG = -=20 http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.4/1754 = -=20 Release Date: 10/29/2008 07:45
------=_NextPart_000_007A_01C93AE0.A2172180-- From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Fri Oct 31 09:36:13 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Hayes, Alexandra) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 09:36:13 +0000 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back In-Reply-To: <007d01c93ae0$a4c355c0$0201a8c0@mccabe9ax6rgq8> References: <016501c939be$99080960$0201a8c0@mccabe9ax6rgq8> <007d01c93ae0$a4c355c0$0201a8c0@mccabe9ax6rgq8> Message-ID: --_000_F322F8D64BAD61459427B12F0E6AE22E9437BBE79FCBGPQMAILBX01_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yep, feel free! The 'victim of domestic violence' one was lifted straight f= rom a poster NO2ID used a while ago: http://www.no2id.net/downloads/TakeJane.pdf From: idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org [mailto:idcards-cambridge-ad= min@lists.beasts.org] On Behalf Of Chris McCabe Sent: 30 October 2008 22:41 To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org Subject: Re: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back Alexandra, is it OK if I quote (anonymously) from yr letter on my Friends R= eunited NO2ID page? I think those examples show the risks v well. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Hayes, Alexandra To: 'idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org' Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:00 PM Subject: RE: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back Thanks, I made the changes to make it clear those are hypothetical scenario= s and sent it in. Andrew, your letter about the council motion is in today'= s edition... From: idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org [mailto:idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org] On B= ehalf Of Chris McCabe Sent: 29 October 2008 12:05 To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org Subject: Re: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back Excellent letter, but for the hard of thinking, maybe u need to make it cle= ar that those 3 scenarios are 'ifs' & not yr biography.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Hayes, Alexandra To: 'idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org' Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 11:33 AM Subject: RE: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back It's the same old schtick he came out with in his many other letters to the= news, parroting the usual lies, with no consideration of the points made b= y the many people who took the time to respond to him. Marc, go on, send that letter, the more the merrier! Am about to send this if people think it's OK: Dear Sir, >From our previous exchange of letters in the CEN, I am not surprised that M= r Albert Gazeley (Letters, 28th October) offers very little in the way of a= ctual evidence as to how exactly ID cards are meant to help solve the probl= ems he discusses, nor why ID cards, rather than better implementation of ex= isting procedures, are the only possible answer. I am also disappointed tha= t he dismisses principled opposition to being forced to use Soviet-style in= ternal passports with the borderline-libellous assertion that we must all b= e criminals or criminal sympathisers, since 'if you have nothing to hide, y= ou have nothing to fear'. I would ask him to consider this. I am a victim of abuse and I don't want my violent partner to find out wher= e I am. He has contacted me recently and said he knows someone who works on= the National Identity Register who will tell him my address. The governmen= t has said it will fine me =A31,000 if I don't update my address details on= the Register when I move. Do I have nothing to fear? I work with children but recently failed a CRB check and lost my job. On in= vestigation I discover that my details on the NIR have been wrongly entered= or maliciously altered; but I have no power to change this because my iden= tity has explicitly been made wholly subject to state control and the info = on there is presumed to be accurate, at the whim of the Home Secretary with= no appeals process. Do I have nothing to fear? I am a witness in a serious criminal trial, under a witness protection sche= me. A civil servant who works on the NIR recently downloaded my details ont= o a CD and left them on a train. Still nothing to fear? The ID cards scheme is opposed by many councils across the land, as well as= millions of law-abiding citizens; public figures such as the former head o= f M15, the outgoing Director of Public Prosecutions, the former Acting Chie= f Constable of Suffolk and the Government's own Information Commissioner ha= ve warned of the dangers that it presents. It seems to me that it is Mr Gaz= eley, not Councillor Normington, who is the one who has led a 'sheltered li= fe' if he cannot see the clear warnings from history about the dangers of s= liding further into the 'surveillance society' of which the NIR is a key pa= rt. This dangerous and illiberal scheme should be scrapped immediately. From: idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org [mailto:idcards-cambridge-ad= min@lists.beasts.org] On Behalf Of Rend Shakir Sent: 28 October 2008 17:28 To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org Subject: RE: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back If Hong Kong is so great why doesn't he just F*** off back to where he came= from? This is a very damaging letter... quite powerfully written.... > To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org > From: andrew.watson@no2id.net > Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 15:35:44 +0100 > > Hi, > > Albert Gazeley is back from Hong King, and has written another letter to > CEN - see below. > > This is another great opportunity to write a letter to the paper for > publication. letters@cambridge-news.co.uk. Don't forget to include your > street address and 'phone number (neither of which will be published). > > Cheers, > > Andrew > > > http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn%5Fnews%5Fletters/DisplayArticle.asp?ID= =3D361713 > > Protection offered by ID cards > From Albert Gazeley > > I WAS amazed to see in the News that Cambridgeshire County Council intend= s > to aid and abet the criminals in our society by fighting ID cards. > > I have carried and been protected by my ID card all my life and I have lo= st > count of the times it has come to my aid. > > Obviously Cllr Susan Normington has led a very sheltered life but if you > are caught up in difficult situations and the police need a quick and > reliable identification to allow you to pass on unobstructed, an ID card = is > indispensable. Of course, if you have something to hide it is a different > matter. > > The British introduced ID cards in Hong Kong (where I have lived for over > 40 years) and believe me it is a far safer place to dine out, go for a > drink, or park your car than Cambridge. > > One only has to read the Cambridge News to realise that Cambridge is no > longer safe in broad daylight, let alone after dark. > > I agree that ID cards are useless when it comes to terrorism - in fact > nothing can work against a determined terrorist, but against the petty > criminals, car thieves, bullies, loiterers, counterfeiters, alcohol abuse= rs > and all those that wish to hide themselves from the law by being anonymou= s, > ID cards are indispensable. It is amazing how well- behaved a person > becomes as soon as the police can check their real identity instead of > being told false information, with the police spending days and taxpayers= ' > money trying to trace people that don't exist. > > Sadly people are thumbing their nose at the law in the UK and many > authorities seem to be on the side of the lawbreakers rather than the > law-abiding silent majority. > > Waterbeach > > Published: 28/10/2008 > > _______________________________________________ > IDcards-Cambridge mailing list > IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org > http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge ________________________________ Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Space= s. It's easy! Try it! ________________________________ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.4/1754 - Release Date: 10/29/2008 = 07:45 ________________________________ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.4/1754 - Release Date: 10/29/2008 = 07:45 --_000_F322F8D64BAD61459427B12F0E6AE22E9437BBE79FCBGPQMAILBX01_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yep, feel free! The ‘victim of domestic violence’= ; one was lifted straight from a poster NO2ID used a while ago:

 

http= ://www.no2id.net/downloads/TakeJane.pdf

 

From: idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.or= g [mailto:idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org] On Behalf Of Chris McCabe
Sent: 30 October 2008 22:41
To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org
Subject: Re: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back

 

Alexandra= , is it OK if I quote (anonymously) from yr letter on my Friends Reunited NO2ID pag= e? I think those examples show the risks v well.

Chris

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, Oct= ober 29, 2008 2:00 PM

Subject: RE: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back

 

Thanks, I made the changes to make it clear those are hypothetical scenarios and sent it in. Andrew, your letter about the counci= l motion is in today’s edition...

 

From: idcards-cambridge-= admin@lists.beasts.org [mailto:idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org] On Behalf Of Chris McCabe
Sent: 29 October 2008 12:05
To: idcards-ca= mbridge@lists.beasts.org
Subject: Re: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back

 

Excellent= letter, but for the hard of thinking, maybe u need to make it clear that those 3 scenarios are 'ifs' & not yr biography....

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, Oct= ober 29, 2008 11:33 AM

Subject: RE: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back

 

It’s the same old schtick he came out with in his many= other letters to the news, parroting the usual lies, with no consideration of the points made by the many people who took the time to respond to him.

 

Marc, go on, send that letter, the more the merrier!

 

Am about to send this if people think it’s OK:

 

 

Dear Sir,

From our previous exchange of letters in the CEN, I am not surprised that Mr Alb= ert Gazeley (Letters, 28th October) offers very little in the way of actual evidence as to how exactly ID cards are meant to help solve the problems he discusses, nor why ID cards, rather than better implementation of existing procedures, are the only possible answer. I am also disappointed that he dismisses principled opposition to being forced to use Soviet-style interna= l passports with the borderline-libellous assertion that we must all be crimi= nals or criminal sympathisers, since ‘if you have nothing to hide, you hav= e nothing to fear’.

 

I would ask him to consider this.

 

I am a victim of abuse and I don’t want my violent partner to find out = where I am. He has contacted me recently and said he knows someone who works on the National Identity Register who will tell him my address. The government has said it will fine me =A31,000 if I don’t update my address details on= the Register when I move. Do I have nothing to fear?

 

I work with children but recently faile= d a CRB check and lost my job. On investigation I discover that my details on t= he NIR have been wrongly entered or maliciously altered; but I have no power t= o change this because my identity has explicitly been made wholly subject to state control and the info on there is presumed to be accurate, at the whim= of the Home Secretary with no appeals process. Do I have nothing to fear?

 

I am a witness in a serious criminal tr= ial, under a witness protection scheme. A civil servant who works on the NIR recently downloaded my details onto a CD and left them on a train.

 

Still nothing to fear?

 

The ID cards scheme is opposed by many councils across the land, as well as millions of law-abiding citizens; publ= ic figures such as the former head of M15, the outgoing Director of Public Prosecutions, the former Acting Chief Constable of Suffolk and the Governme= nt’s own Information Commissioner have warned of the dangers that it presents. I= t seems to me that it is Mr Gazeley, not Councillor Normington, who is the one who has led a ‘sheltered li= fe’ if he cannot see the clear warnings from history about the dangers of sliding fur= ther into the ‘surveillance society’ of which the NIR is a key part.= This dangerous and illiberal scheme should be scrapped immediately.

 

 

From: idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.or= g [mailto:idcards-cambridge-admin@lists.beasts.org] On Behalf Of Rend Shakir
Sent: 28 October 2008 17:28
To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org
Subject: RE: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back

 

If Hong Kong is so great why doesn't he = just F*** off back to where he came from?
This is a very damaging letter... quite powerfully written....


> To: idcards-cambridge@lists.beasts.org
> From: andrew.watson@no2id.net
> Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Mr Gazeley is back
> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 15:35:44 +0100
>
> Hi,
>
> Albert Gazeley is back from Hong King, and has written another letter = to
> CEN - see below.
>
> This is another great opportunity to write a letter to the paper for > publication. letters@cambridge-news.co.uk. Don't forget to include you= r
> street address and 'phone number (neither of which will be published).=
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andrew
>
>
> http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn%5Fnews%5Fletters/DisplayArticle.asp?ID= =3D361713
>
> Protection offered by ID cards
> From Albert Gazeley
>
> I WAS amazed to see in the News that Cambridgeshire County Council int= ends
> to aid and abet the criminals in our society by fighting ID cards.
>
> I have carried and been protected by my ID card all my life and I have lost
> count of the times it has come to my aid.
>
> Obviously Cllr Susan Normington has led a very sheltered life but if y= ou
> are caught up in difficult situations and the police need a quick and<= br> > reliable identification to allow you to pass on unobstructed, an ID ca= rd is
> indispensable. Of course, if you have something to hide it is a differ= ent
> matter.
>
> The British introduced ID cards in Hong Kong (where I have lived for o= ver
> 40 years) and believe me it is a far safer place to dine out, go for a=
> drink, or park your car than Cambridge.
>
> One only has to read the Cambridge News to realise that Cambridge is n= o
> longer safe in broad daylight, let alone after dark.
>
> I agree that ID cards are useless when it comes to terrorism - in fact=
> nothing can work against a determined terrorist, but against the petty=
> criminals, car thieves, bullies, loiterers, counterfeiters, alcohol abusers
> and all those that wish to hide themselves from the law by being anonymous,
> ID cards are indispensable. It is amazing how well- behaved a person > becomes as soon as the police can check their real identity instead of=
> being told false information, with the police spending days and taxpay= ers'
> money trying to trace people that don't exist.
>
> Sadly people are thumbing their nose at the law in the UK and many
> authorities seem to be on the side of the lawbreakers rather than the<= br> > law-abiding silent majority.
>
> Waterbeach
>
> Published: 28/10/2008
>
> _______________________________________________
> IDcards-Cambridge mailing list
> IDcards-Cambridge@lists.beasts.org
> http://lists.beasts.org/mailman/listinfo/idcards-cambridge<= /span>

Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! Try it!


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.4/1754 - Release Date: 10/29/2008 07:45


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--_000_F322F8D64BAD61459427B12F0E6AE22E9437BBE79FCBGPQMAILBX01_-- From idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org Fri Oct 31 10:51:04 2008 From: idcards-cambridge at lists.beasts.org (Andrew Watson) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 10:51:04 +0000 Subject: [IDcards-Cambridge] Nursery School biometrics Message-ID: Hi, Radio Cambridgeshire called yesterday for an interview about local nursery schools fingerprinting parents for biometric entry systems. While this isn't strictly relevant to the campaign, it seemed worthwhile taking the opportunity to bash fingerprint biometrics on-air, since the Home Office keeps claiming they're the magic sprinkling dust that would make ID cards fraud-proof. You can listen to the interview here: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ajwatson/no2id-audio/08-10-31_0800_Radio_Cambs.mp3 NO2ID is currently getting a name-check in the news bulletins at the top of every hour. It all helps ... Cheers, Andrew